On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 02:20:21 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary ChildsPost by BoomDevo once
recorded a song called "Big Mess," dedicated to Ronald Reagan.
Actually the lyrics to that song were written by a crazed Wink Martindale
fan.
I've never heard it was dedicated to Ronald Reagan.
Then you don't know your Devo history very well. Jerry has said in
several interviews that "Big Mess" was about Reagan. He used the
Cowboy Kim letter as a basis to write the song. I don't think it will
take much to find a spud or two to back that up.
Post by Gary ChildsPost by BoomSo the
seed of Reagan-based hatred was sown with that song.
Not true at all. They disliked him before that.
"give the past the slip"
Whip It was an anti-Reagan song.
No it wasn't. It was a self-help song based on something Mark's dad
used to say. I have also heard that it was based on Carter's
inability to deal with the Iran hostage crisis, but I've never heard
that from Devo directly so I tend not to believe it. And what past
with Reagan did they want to give the slip? Him being governor of
California, which happened years before Devo moved there? Some of his
shitty movies, maybe? You're talking out of your ass on that one.
Post by Gary ChildsThe New Traditionalists' album theme was to establish new traditions, and
abandon the old ones.
The plastic hair was modeled after J.F.K.'s pompadour.
Mark and Jerry were pot-smoking, long haired, protesting, left wing art
students.
It was their destiny to dislike Reagan.
Whatever. Has nothing to do with anything we're talking about, but
OK.
Post by Gary ChildsPost by BoomSo it is my considered opinion (and BTW, you are probably the only one
who needs this spelled out to you)
Well, there you go again (to quote Reagan).
You have a tendency to believe you know what everyone thinks, and also to
speak in absolutes.
These are logical falacies.
OK, let's take a poll...did anyone else but Gary not understand that
Jerry was trying to show everyone how evil Republicans were with that
line in the crawler? Did anyone also not get that he was trying to
show how Devo was fighting against Republican evil by performing?
Post by Gary ChildsPost by Boomthat the point was to show how evil
Reagan and the Republicans were/are.
I know he wants to do that, but how does saying that Reagan was President in
August 1980 have anything to do with that?
Nothing. He had already said as much anyway. The fact that he made
it sound like Reagan was already president was just a little added
oomph to it to demonstrate that they were fighting against it by that
show.
Post by Gary ChildsPost by BoomNever mind that Carter, a
Democrat, was letting a few dozen hostages languish in Iran at the
time while doing nothing to get them out, which to me is as evil as
anything any president has ever done.
That's like blaming W for the recent beheadings of Americans. It's not
really fair. Carter did try, and fumbled in a rescue attempt, but it was
Reagan's secret deal that got them out. I guess they already considered him
to be President in Iran.
Secret deal my ass. He threatened to go in there and kill 'em all and
they backed down. And Carter's bungled rescue attempt came months
after they first got taken hostage, and after it got bungled, he never
tried again. If that were Reagan, those hostages would have been
freed within two weeks.
Post by Gary ChildsPost by BoomReagan was true evil,
according to Mr. Casale, even though he managed to end communism
everywhere but Cuba and got the Iran hostages out within 3 days of his
assuming the Presidency.
First of all, he didn't end communism. It ended itself. It failed. It
collasped under it's own weight.
Well it did that too, but it was because of pressure from Reagan that
caused that weight to become even heavier.
Post by Gary ChildsSecond of all, it didn't end everywhere but Cuba. What about China?
Sorry. I forgot China.
Post by Gary ChildsThird of all, he gave weapons to Iran in a deal that could be considered as
evil as giving Iraq the ability to create poison gas to use on Iran, or the
kurds.
Oh really? Where do you get this information from? He gave weapons
to Iraq to help them fight Iran. You show me any proof that he ever
sold or gave weapons to Iran while Khomeini was in charge. And by
proof, I don't mean some idiot blogger.
Post by Gary ChildsPost by BoomApparently touting an economic policy that
didn't work was much more evil.
The rich got richer, the poor got poorer. Reverse Robin Hood. Evil.
You didn't need Reaganomics for that to happen. That will always
happen in a capitalistic society no matter who's in charge.
Post by Gary ChildsYou're also leaving out what Ron did in El Salvador, etc.
He supported an army that would chop up people and put their bodies in oil
drums.
Like the Sandinista rebels were any better. They just didn't have oil
drums.
Post by Gary ChildsPost by BoomSo by telling the world that in
August of 1980 Reagan had the country in his evil grip,
He could have done that by saying that it would soon happen in the election
in November, or the inauguration in January.
Why did he have to say August in particular?
Gawd! I can't believe I'm arguing with you on this! He did it to
show all the evil that Devo was trying to overcome at the time their
gig was taped! Do you not get it at all? Am I the only one who gets
that? Because it sure seems like it's a concept that was spelled out
completely with no room for any other interpretation in the crawler.
Post by Gary ChildsPost by BoomJerry Casale
got to accomplish two of his favorite pasttimes...bashing Republicans
Of course, no argument there, but bashing Republicans has nothing to do with
getting the date wrong.
All he had to say was that Ronald Reagan *would soon* be presiding over the
land.
You see, then he could get the date right *and* bash Republicans.
But then Devo wouldn't be able to fight "the good fight" against
Reagan's tyrannical regime.
Post by Gary ChildsPost by Boomand speaking ill of the dead.
Speaking ill of the dead is another of his pastimes?
I never noticed that.
For all we know, he may have written the intro before Reagan even died.
Do you have any examples of him bashing any other dead people?
I said that to be funny. And it was so very motherfucking funny. I
guess liberals aren't the only ones who can intentionally twist things
around.
Post by Gary ChildsPost by BoomBut if you don't think it was intentional, I have some
swampland to sell you.
I believe he was intentionally bashing Republicans with the DVD intro, but I
don't believe he would purposely get the date wrong. I think he just screwed
up. I also don't believe his pastime is speaking ill of the dead.
My pasttime is going to be speaking ill of you, Gary. You liberals
love to speak of evildoings like Republicans are the only ones who do
it. Just remember under whose watch the Vietnam war got started, and
who bailed on it and left the Republicans to clean the mess up. You
want to talk about evil? At least there's a reason for the war we're
in now and a certain goal to accomplish. What the fuck did Kennedy
and Johnson accomplish with the Vietnam war?
Post by Gary Childs"Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" - Ronald Reagan
In 1984, I was miles better off than I was in 1980. Of course, I'd
like to take credit for most of that myself, just like I would take
the blame if my life got worse.
I can't believe I got sucked into another one of these ridiculous
arguments with you. Your only basis for arguing is that you don't
like the fact that I called your hero Jerry on a so-called mistake he
made, and now you're just throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks
in an effort to prove I'm wrong. And of course, nothing you have said
either proves or disproves it, just like nothing I have said proves or
disproves it. However, I fully believe that it was no factual error.
As politically aware is Devo is, especially Jerry, you have to be
pretty goddamn naive to think it was an honest factual error.