Discussion:
LIVE 1980 DVD
(too old to reply)
John Franklin
2005-09-15 00:04:47 UTC
Permalink
I was really happy to finally get this and then was pleasantly surprised to
see it was a dualdisc combo. Then I watched it. Why do they have to put a
new intro bashing Reagan and W? Granted about 95% of the musicians out there
hate Republicans, but this just seemed like a cheap shot. What happened to
the thinking behind the line "Republicans and Democrats are the same..."
from the Men Who Make The Music video? What a bitter bunch of cunts, I
didn't pay $15.00 for their grafted on political views. Fuck them.
Hugh Jorgan
2005-09-15 01:49:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Franklin
I was really happy to finally get this and then was pleasantly surprised to
see it was a dualdisc combo. Then I watched it. Why do they have to put a
new intro bashing Reagan and W? Granted about 95% of the musicians out there
hate Republicans, but this just seemed like a cheap shot. What happened to
the thinking behind the line "Republicans and Democrats are the same..."
from the Men Who Make The Music video? What a bitter bunch of cunts, I
didn't pay $15.00 for their grafted on political views. Fuck them.
lighten up. it's just music. 25 years later, none of that sh*t matters.
Gary Childs
2005-09-15 02:11:31 UTC
Permalink
I didn't pay $15.00 for their grafted on political views.
Grafted on? Jerry started Devo after almost being gunned down by troops sent
into Kent State by a Republican President.
Their political views were subtle, but were always there.
They put American flags on the cover of Freedom Of Choice.
I guess you hate America.
Pink Pussycat
2005-09-15 20:13:33 UTC
Permalink
Mr. Franklin... why not return the DVD in protest, if you don't like
the "elephant bashing"?

Great point, Gary. I think a lot of Devo fans underestimate the
influence the Kent State murders had on the formation of Devo, and on
GVC. Take a moment and actually THINK about what it must have been
like to go through that. Does GVC bashing on Republicans make a little
more sense now? It should.

And yes, Boom, Bonzo hadn't gone to DC yet when the concert was shot,
but you've already had your hissy fit about that.

~Pink
Boom
2005-09-16 02:58:47 UTC
Permalink
On 15 Sep 2005 13:13:33 -0700, "Pink Pussycat"
Post by Pink Pussycat
Mr. Franklin... why not return the DVD in protest, if you don't like
the "elephant bashing"?
Great point, Gary. I think a lot of Devo fans underestimate the
influence the Kent State murders had on the formation of Devo, and on
GVC. Take a moment and actually THINK about what it must have been
like to go through that. Does GVC bashing on Republicans make a little
more sense now? It should.
While we're at it, let's keep blaming current Democrats for Kennedy
and Johnson getting us embroiled in the Vietnam War. Oh, but no,
Republicans are pure evil, and Democrats truly care, so let's keep
harping on all the Republican stuff they did bad and let's forget
about all the bad Democrat stuff.
Post by Pink Pussycat
And yes, Boom, Bonzo hadn't gone to DC yet when the concert was shot,
but you've already had your hissy fit about that.
Hey, it was a lie. If you're going to complain about Republicans
lying, be prepared to get called on Democratic lies and don't whine
about it.
b***@devodude.com
2005-09-16 03:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Republicans, Democrats...doesn't matter. Humans...HUMANS...are either
going to save or destroy the world. People can label themselves all
they want, but it ultimately means nothing.
Pink Pussycat
2005-09-16 03:42:43 UTC
Permalink
Boom, you missed my point. I'll try to restate it differently, without
using the name of any political party. . .

I feel that the GVC's political views have been heavily influenced by
seeing people he knew being murdered right next to him at the age of
21.

For the record, I've been registered as both a Democrat and a
Republican in my early voting days. Now I'm "decline to state." Most
politicians are suckers of Satan's cock*, no matter what party they're
from.

~Pink
(*Yep, I'm a Goat Child)
Gary Childs
2005-09-16 04:22:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pink Pussycat
For the record, I've been registered as both a Democrat and a
Republican
So was Ronald Reagan. He was a Democrat who became a Republican.
Boom
2005-09-16 07:12:28 UTC
Permalink
On 15 Sep 2005 20:42:43 -0700, "Pink Pussycat"
Post by Pink Pussycat
Boom, you missed my point. I'll try to restate it differently, without
using the name of any political party. . .
I feel that the GVC's political views have been heavily influenced by
seeing people he knew being murdered right next to him at the age of
21.
I'm sure they were. And he's entitled to have any political belief he
wants and state them in his videos all day long. And I am entitled to
disagree with him and call him on it when he says something that's an
out and out lie. Doesn't mean I dislike him or Devo.
Post by Pink Pussycat
For the record, I've been registered as both a Democrat and a
Republican in my early voting days. Now I'm "decline to state." Most
politicians are suckers of Satan's cock*, no matter what party they're
from.
Well that much is true. They all suck much Satanic cock.
b***@devodude.com
2005-09-16 04:01:01 UTC
Permalink
Republicans, Democrats...doesn't matter. Humans...HUMANS...are either
going to save or destroy the world. People can label themselves all
they want, but it ultimately means nothing.
Gary Childs
2005-09-16 04:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
Hey, it was a lie.
It was a mistake. He was a few months off.
Post by Boom
If you're going to complain about Republicans
lying, be prepared to get called on Democratic lies
The Dems didn't write the DVD intro. Jerry did.
Boom
2005-09-16 07:05:36 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:18:02 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
Hey, it was a lie.
It was a mistake. He was a few months off.
Bah, if that was a true mistake, I will stick my copy of the CD up my
butt then eat it. Jerry is no idiot. He knows full well what he's
doing. besides, I'm sure he wasn't the only one who saw that crawler
and said something about it before it went out.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
If you're going to complain about Republicans
lying, be prepared to get called on Democratic lies
The Dems didn't write the DVD intro. Jerry did.
And Jerry is a...?
Boom
2005-09-16 07:13:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:18:02 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
Hey, it was a lie.
It was a mistake. He was a few months off.
Bah, if that was a true mistake, I will stick my copy of the CD up my
butt then eat it. Jerry is no idiot. He knows full well what he's
doing. besides, I'm sure he wasn't the only one who saw that crawler
and said something about it before it went out.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
If you're going to complain about Republicans
lying, be prepared to get called on Democratic lies
The Dems didn't write the DVD intro. Jerry did.
And Jerry is a...?
BTW, don't say "bass player" as an answer ;)
Todd Spango
2005-09-16 10:29:53 UTC
Permalink
How about "provocateur"? You seem awfully upset over this one
ultimately meaningless factual error. I swear, I can't understand why
this bothers you so much that you have to keep posting and posting and
posting about it. Trust me, dude, there are much bigger lies around
that you could be railing about & it would maybe make a difference.

For instance, how about "nobody could have anticipated that the levees
would break"?
Boom
2005-09-16 13:00:56 UTC
Permalink
On 16 Sep 2005 03:29:53 -0700, "Todd Spango"
Post by Todd Spango
How about "provocateur"? You seem awfully upset over this one
ultimately meaningless factual error. I swear, I can't understand why
this bothers you so much that you have to keep posting and posting and
posting about it. Trust me, dude, there are much bigger lies around
that you could be railing about & it would maybe make a difference.
Right. Like anything in the past has made a difference. At least
give me points for staying on topic.
Post by Todd Spango
For instance, how about "nobody could have anticipated that the levees
would break"?
Led Zeppelin did.
N***@gmail.com
2005-09-16 14:45:50 UTC
Permalink
As someone who probably agrees with Gerry on most political issues, I
also find it a little annoying that Gerry gets the Reagan info wrong. I
even think Boom is probably correct that it's a knowing mistake.
Smugness combined with factual inaccuracy generally aren't a good
formula for getting your side over in a debate, and I think that Gerry
could possibly serve his side better by coming off a bit less arrogant.
In most of his writing and speaking, he reminds me of Frank Zappa
lecturing Congress like children -- right or wrong, you're just coming
off like kind of a prick to people who are on the fence.

Of course, it's no surprise that a Bush supporter like Boom is so
indignant over the words of an entertainer -- the right wing's Great
Satan -- that he feels the need to continue to carry on about it in the
second thread in a newsgroup that isn't overcrowded with topics.
Gary Childs
2005-09-16 17:01:26 UTC
Permalink
I even think Boom is probably correct that it's a knowing mistake.
Smugness combined with factual inaccuracy generally aren't a good
formula for getting your side over in a debate
If I was debating someone and I mentioned that George Washington freed the
slaves; how would that help get my point across? It's not logical. You can
twist facts, but to get a documented piece of information wrong does nothing
to help your case. He simply incorrectly remembered that 1980 was the year
that Teflon Ron took over. I can't blame him. I connect 1980 with Ronald
Reagan also. I think of the 1980's as the Reagan/Bush era.
Frank Zappa lecturing Congress like children
They needed a lecture. They seemed to have forgotten what free speech was.
N***@gmail.com
2005-09-16 17:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Childs
I even think Boom is probably correct that it's a knowing mistake.
Smugness combined with factual inaccuracy generally aren't a good
formula for getting your side over in a debate
If I was debating someone and I mentioned that George Washington freed the
slaves; how would that help get my point across? It's not logical.
I don't get your point. It *wouldn't* help. Just as Gerry's error only
costs his point credibility.
Post by Gary Childs
He simply incorrectly remembered that 1980 was the year
that Teflon Ron took over.
I'm more skeptical. It's too basic a factual error. if it's a true
mistake, I'd rate it a dumber one than you're rating it.
Post by Gary Childs
Frank Zappa lecturing Congress like children
They needed a lecture. They seemed to have forgotten what free speech was.
Yet having a blowhard condescend to them didn't prevent those "Parental
Advisory" stickers, did it? Kind of my point.
Gary Childs
2005-09-16 18:01:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by N***@gmail.com
I don't get your point. It *wouldn't* help. Just as Gerry's error only
costs his point credibility.
Right. That's why he didn't do it on purpose.
Post by N***@gmail.com
I'm more skeptical. It's too basic a factual error. if it's a true
mistake, I'd rate it a dumber one than you're rating it.
It's pretty easy to confuse the election year with the actual Presidentcy.
Reagan was the President Elect in that year.
Post by N***@gmail.com
Yet having a blowhard condescend to them didn't prevent those "Parental
Advisory" stickers, did it?
Nothing he said would have.
N***@gmail.com
2005-09-16 18:15:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Childs
Post by N***@gmail.com
I don't get your point. It *wouldn't* help. Just as Gerry's error only
costs his point credibility.
Right. That's why he didn't do it on purpose.
I guess all I can say is that there are two possibilities: It's an
honest error, or an obfuscation. But either way, Gerry undermines his
credibility with a factual error, and I was expressing my frustration
at that. Even if he was just mistaken, then he loses his "authority" on
that point. And that's frustrating when I'm basically on the same side.
Gary Childs
2005-09-16 18:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by N***@gmail.com
I guess all I can say is that there are two possibilities: It's an
honest error, or an obfuscation. But either way, Gerry undermines his
credibility with a factual error, and I was expressing my frustration
at that. Even if he was just mistaken, then he loses his "authority" on
that point. And that's frustrating when I'm basically on the same side.
It's like ruining a good joke by flubbing the wording.
C'est la Vie!
Now I'll go whine into my freedom fries.....
N***@gmail.com
2005-09-16 18:47:13 UTC
Permalink
Pass the (W ) ketchup! (and clean that mess up)
Gary Childs
2005-09-16 19:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by N***@gmail.com
Pass the (W ) ketchup! (and clean that mess up)
Is ketchup still a vegetable?
N***@gmail.com
2005-09-16 19:38:45 UTC
Permalink
W Ketchup is.
Boom
2005-09-18 20:36:37 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:01:03 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary Childs
Post by N***@gmail.com
I don't get your point. It *wouldn't* help. Just as Gerry's error only
costs his point credibility.
Right. That's why he didn't do it on purpose.
I would venture to say that Jerry never does anything by accident.
He's too smart for that.
Post by Gary Childs
It's pretty easy to confuse the election year with the actual Presidentcy.
Reagan was the President Elect in that year.
It's not that hard when you have a legion of people who worked on the
video along with Jerry. You mean to tell me someone else along the
line and didn't spot that "mistake?" Everyone knows election years
happen in even numbered years, with elections being held in the years
that are multiples of 20 ending in 0, such as 1980. If you believe
that it was truly a mistake, then I would suggest that you're not
giving Jerry enough credit for brains.
Gary Childs
2005-09-18 21:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
I would venture to say that Jerry never does anything by accident.
Of course not. He never makes mistakes. He's the perfect man. Right.
Post by Boom
He's too smart for that.
Smart people never make mistakes. Yeah.
Post by Boom
It's not that hard when you have a legion of people who worked on the
video along with Jerry. You mean to tell me someone else along the
line and didn't spot that "mistake?"
A legion of people? This wasn't a Rolling Stones DVD.
Post by Boom
Everyone knows election years
happen in even numbered years, with elections being held in the years
that are multiples of 20 ending in 0, such as 1980.
How can you speak for everyone?
You should watch the "Jaywalking" segment on the Tonight Show.
You'd be surprised what people don't know.
Post by Boom
If you believe
that it was truly a mistake, then I would suggest that you're not
giving Jerry enough credit for brains.
So you're saying that he got the information wrong on purpose?
He said Reagan was President at a time when he wasn't, and you consider that
a brilliant move?
What benefit could getting this easily verifiable date information wrong?
What was his secret hidden agenda?


"......things are blending together....I am senile"
- Jerry Casale - Vermont Review Interview
Boom
2005-09-19 07:06:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:05:48 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
It's not that hard when you have a legion of people who worked on the
video along with Jerry. You mean to tell me someone else along the
line and didn't spot that "mistake?"
A legion of people? This wasn't a Rolling Stones DVD.
Oh come on! You know good and well that on every single DVD ever
released, there are people who work on it. If there were less than 5
people working on that DVD with Jerry outside of other Devos, I would
be surprised.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
Everyone knows election years
happen in even numbered years, with elections being held in the years
that are multiples of 20 ending in 0, such as 1980.
How can you speak for everyone?
You should watch the "Jaywalking" segment on the Tonight Show.
You'd be surprised what people don't know.
So are you saying that Jerry is as stupid as those Jaywalking idiots?
BTW, I'm starting to think that Jay puts those people up to being
stupid. Jay Leno is pure evil.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
If you believe
that it was truly a mistake, then I would suggest that you're not
giving Jerry enough credit for brains.
So you're saying that he got the information wrong on purpose?
He said Reagan was President at a time when he wasn't, and you consider that
a brilliant move?
What benefit could getting this easily verifiable date information wrong?
What was his secret hidden agenda?
You have got to be joking.
Gary Childs
2005-09-19 15:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
You have got to be joking.
Not at all. Why would he say Reagan took office 5 months earlier if he
didn't?
What was the point of that? Explain it to me.
Boom
2005-09-20 05:00:30 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:40:17 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
You have got to be joking.
Not at all. Why would he say Reagan took office 5 months earlier if he
didn't?
What was the point of that? Explain it to me.
Well Gary, as the huge Devo fanatic you are, you know that Devo once
recorded a song called "Big Mess," dedicated to Ronald Reagan. So the
seed of Reagan-based hatred was sown with that song. It's well known
that of all the presidents in his lifetime, Jerry liked Kennedy the
best and dislikes W, Nixon, and Reagan the most.

So it is my considered opinion (and BTW, you are probably the only one
who needs this spelled out to you) that the point was to show how evil
Reagan and the Republicans were/are. Never mind that Carter, a
Democrat, was letting a few dozen hostages languish in Iran at the
time while doing nothing to get them out, which to me is as evil as
anything any president has ever done. Reagan was true evil,
according to Mr. Casale, even though he managed to end communism
everywhere but Cuba and got the Iran hostages out within 3 days of his
assuming the Presidency. Apparently touting an economic policy that
didn't work was much more evil. So by telling the world that in
August of 1980 Reagan had the country in his evil grip, Jerry Casale
got to accomplish two of his favorite pasttimes...bashing Republicans
and speaking ill of the dead.

Not that I have a problem with speaking ill of the dead. I know lots
of dead people I'd like to dig up so I can beat the shit out of them
and kill them. But if you don't think it was intentional, I have some
swampland to sell you.
Gary Childs
2005-09-20 06:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
Devo once
recorded a song called "Big Mess," dedicated to Ronald Reagan.
Actually the lyrics to that song were written by a crazed Wink Martindale
fan.
I've never heard it was dedicated to Ronald Reagan.
Post by Boom
So the
seed of Reagan-based hatred was sown with that song.
Not true at all. They disliked him before that.
They mocked Reagan's backward-looking traditionalism with lyrics like:
"give the past the slip"
Whip It was an anti-Reagan song.
The New Traditionalists' album theme was to establish new traditions, and
abandon the old ones.
The plastic hair was modeled after J.F.K.'s pompadour.
Mark and Jerry were pot-smoking, long haired, protesting, left wing art
students.
It was their destiny to dislike Reagan.
Post by Boom
It's well known
that of all the presidents in his lifetime, Jerry liked Kennedy the
best and dislikes W, Nixon, and Reagan the most.
True.
Post by Boom
So it is my considered opinion (and BTW, you are probably the only one
who needs this spelled out to you)
Well, there you go again (to quote Reagan).
You have a tendency to believe you know what everyone thinks, and also to
speak in absolutes.
These are logical falacies.
Post by Boom
that the point was to show how evil
Reagan and the Republicans were/are.
I know he wants to do that, but how does saying that Reagan was President in
August 1980 have anything to do with that?
Post by Boom
Never mind that Carter, a
Democrat, was letting a few dozen hostages languish in Iran at the
time while doing nothing to get them out, which to me is as evil as
anything any president has ever done.
That's like blaming W for the recent beheadings of Americans. It's not
really fair. Carter did try, and fumbled in a rescue attempt, but it was
Reagan's secret deal that got them out. I guess they already considered him
to be President in Iran.
Post by Boom
Reagan was true evil,
according to Mr. Casale, even though he managed to end communism
everywhere but Cuba and got the Iran hostages out within 3 days of his
assuming the Presidency.
First of all, he didn't end communism. It ended itself. It failed. It
collasped under it's own weight.
Second of all, it didn't end everywhere but Cuba. What about China?
Third of all, he gave weapons to Iran in a deal that could be considered as
evil as giving Iraq the ability to create poison gas to use on Iran, or the
kurds.
Post by Boom
Apparently touting an economic policy that
didn't work was much more evil.
The rich got richer, the poor got poorer. Reverse Robin Hood. Evil.
You're also leaving out what Ron did in El Salvador, etc.
He supported an army that would chop up people and put their bodies in oil
drums.
Post by Boom
So by telling the world that in
August of 1980 Reagan had the country in his evil grip,
He could have done that by saying that it would soon happen in the election
in November, or the inauguration in January.
Why did he have to say August in particular?
Post by Boom
Jerry Casale
got to accomplish two of his favorite pasttimes...bashing Republicans
Of course, no argument there, but bashing Republicans has nothing to do with
getting the date wrong.
All he had to say was that Ronald Reagan *would soon* be presiding over the
land.
You see, then he could get the date right *and* bash Republicans.
Post by Boom
and speaking ill of the dead.
Speaking ill of the dead is another of his pastimes?
I never noticed that.
For all we know, he may have written the intro before Reagan even died.
Do you have any examples of him bashing any other dead people?
Post by Boom
But if you don't think it was intentional, I have some
swampland to sell you.
I believe he was intentionally bashing Republicans with the DVD intro, but I
don't believe he would purposely get the date wrong. I think he just screwed
up. I also don't believe his pastime is speaking ill of the dead.

"Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" - Ronald Reagan
Boom
2005-09-20 13:23:56 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 02:20:21 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
Devo once
recorded a song called "Big Mess," dedicated to Ronald Reagan.
Actually the lyrics to that song were written by a crazed Wink Martindale
fan.
I've never heard it was dedicated to Ronald Reagan.
Then you don't know your Devo history very well. Jerry has said in
several interviews that "Big Mess" was about Reagan. He used the
Cowboy Kim letter as a basis to write the song. I don't think it will
take much to find a spud or two to back that up.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
So the
seed of Reagan-based hatred was sown with that song.
Not true at all. They disliked him before that.
"give the past the slip"
Whip It was an anti-Reagan song.
No it wasn't. It was a self-help song based on something Mark's dad
used to say. I have also heard that it was based on Carter's
inability to deal with the Iran hostage crisis, but I've never heard
that from Devo directly so I tend not to believe it. And what past
with Reagan did they want to give the slip? Him being governor of
California, which happened years before Devo moved there? Some of his
shitty movies, maybe? You're talking out of your ass on that one.
Post by Gary Childs
The New Traditionalists' album theme was to establish new traditions, and
abandon the old ones.
The plastic hair was modeled after J.F.K.'s pompadour.
Mark and Jerry were pot-smoking, long haired, protesting, left wing art
students.
It was their destiny to dislike Reagan.
Whatever. Has nothing to do with anything we're talking about, but
OK.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
So it is my considered opinion (and BTW, you are probably the only one
who needs this spelled out to you)
Well, there you go again (to quote Reagan).
You have a tendency to believe you know what everyone thinks, and also to
speak in absolutes.
These are logical falacies.
OK, let's take a poll...did anyone else but Gary not understand that
Jerry was trying to show everyone how evil Republicans were with that
line in the crawler? Did anyone also not get that he was trying to
show how Devo was fighting against Republican evil by performing?
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
that the point was to show how evil
Reagan and the Republicans were/are.
I know he wants to do that, but how does saying that Reagan was President in
August 1980 have anything to do with that?
Nothing. He had already said as much anyway. The fact that he made
it sound like Reagan was already president was just a little added
oomph to it to demonstrate that they were fighting against it by that
show.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
Never mind that Carter, a
Democrat, was letting a few dozen hostages languish in Iran at the
time while doing nothing to get them out, which to me is as evil as
anything any president has ever done.
That's like blaming W for the recent beheadings of Americans. It's not
really fair. Carter did try, and fumbled in a rescue attempt, but it was
Reagan's secret deal that got them out. I guess they already considered him
to be President in Iran.
Secret deal my ass. He threatened to go in there and kill 'em all and
they backed down. And Carter's bungled rescue attempt came months
after they first got taken hostage, and after it got bungled, he never
tried again. If that were Reagan, those hostages would have been
freed within two weeks.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
Reagan was true evil,
according to Mr. Casale, even though he managed to end communism
everywhere but Cuba and got the Iran hostages out within 3 days of his
assuming the Presidency.
First of all, he didn't end communism. It ended itself. It failed. It
collasped under it's own weight.
Well it did that too, but it was because of pressure from Reagan that
caused that weight to become even heavier.
Post by Gary Childs
Second of all, it didn't end everywhere but Cuba. What about China?
Sorry. I forgot China.
Post by Gary Childs
Third of all, he gave weapons to Iran in a deal that could be considered as
evil as giving Iraq the ability to create poison gas to use on Iran, or the
kurds.
Oh really? Where do you get this information from? He gave weapons
to Iraq to help them fight Iran. You show me any proof that he ever
sold or gave weapons to Iran while Khomeini was in charge. And by
proof, I don't mean some idiot blogger.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
Apparently touting an economic policy that
didn't work was much more evil.
The rich got richer, the poor got poorer. Reverse Robin Hood. Evil.
You didn't need Reaganomics for that to happen. That will always
happen in a capitalistic society no matter who's in charge.
Post by Gary Childs
You're also leaving out what Ron did in El Salvador, etc.
He supported an army that would chop up people and put their bodies in oil
drums.
Like the Sandinista rebels were any better. They just didn't have oil
drums.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
So by telling the world that in
August of 1980 Reagan had the country in his evil grip,
He could have done that by saying that it would soon happen in the election
in November, or the inauguration in January.
Why did he have to say August in particular?
Gawd! I can't believe I'm arguing with you on this! He did it to
show all the evil that Devo was trying to overcome at the time their
gig was taped! Do you not get it at all? Am I the only one who gets
that? Because it sure seems like it's a concept that was spelled out
completely with no room for any other interpretation in the crawler.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
Jerry Casale
got to accomplish two of his favorite pasttimes...bashing Republicans
Of course, no argument there, but bashing Republicans has nothing to do with
getting the date wrong.
All he had to say was that Ronald Reagan *would soon* be presiding over the
land.
You see, then he could get the date right *and* bash Republicans.
But then Devo wouldn't be able to fight "the good fight" against
Reagan's tyrannical regime.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
and speaking ill of the dead.
Speaking ill of the dead is another of his pastimes?
I never noticed that.
For all we know, he may have written the intro before Reagan even died.
Do you have any examples of him bashing any other dead people?
I said that to be funny. And it was so very motherfucking funny. I
guess liberals aren't the only ones who can intentionally twist things
around.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
But if you don't think it was intentional, I have some
swampland to sell you.
I believe he was intentionally bashing Republicans with the DVD intro, but I
don't believe he would purposely get the date wrong. I think he just screwed
up. I also don't believe his pastime is speaking ill of the dead.
My pasttime is going to be speaking ill of you, Gary. You liberals
love to speak of evildoings like Republicans are the only ones who do
it. Just remember under whose watch the Vietnam war got started, and
who bailed on it and left the Republicans to clean the mess up. You
want to talk about evil? At least there's a reason for the war we're
in now and a certain goal to accomplish. What the fuck did Kennedy
and Johnson accomplish with the Vietnam war?
Post by Gary Childs
"Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" - Ronald Reagan
In 1984, I was miles better off than I was in 1980. Of course, I'd
like to take credit for most of that myself, just like I would take
the blame if my life got worse.

I can't believe I got sucked into another one of these ridiculous
arguments with you. Your only basis for arguing is that you don't
like the fact that I called your hero Jerry on a so-called mistake he
made, and now you're just throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks
in an effort to prove I'm wrong. And of course, nothing you have said
either proves or disproves it, just like nothing I have said proves or
disproves it. However, I fully believe that it was no factual error.
As politically aware is Devo is, especially Jerry, you have to be
pretty goddamn naive to think it was an honest factual error.
Boom
2005-09-20 18:53:00 UTC
Permalink
OK, I stand corrected...according to Jerry, it WAS an honest mistake.
He just sent me an email that said that he thought this DVD was
originally going to be a later concert but it wasn't. And people at
Target Video caught the mistake but nobody ever corrected it.

So I will take him at his word and not read any more into it. Fair
enough.
Gary Childs
2005-09-20 19:13:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
OK, I stand corrected...according to Jerry, it WAS an honest mistake.
He just sent me an email that said that he thought this DVD was
originally going to be a later concert but it wasn't. And people at
Target Video caught the mistake but nobody ever corrected it.
So I will take him at his word and not read any more into it. Fair
enough.
That's mighty white of you. I figured that you'd claim he was lying once he
said it was a mistake.
Kudos to you!
Pink Pussycat
2005-09-20 23:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Boom, thanks for making the effort to find out the truth about that
mistake.

And hey fellas (yeah, all of you!), can we find some way to agree to
disagree about politics? I know I kinda sound Polyanna-ish here, but
there's other stuff to talk about... like whether or not they'll be any
other shows in 2006 besides the ones in SoCal. (And no, I won't be
going to those... with my luck I'll buy tickets only to be stuck at
home in a snowstorm.)

~Pink
Gary Childs
2005-09-20 18:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
Jerry has said in
several interviews that "Big Mess" was about Reagan.
I never heard that before.
It sounds possible.
Can you point me to an intervirew quote?
Post by Boom
No it wasn't. It was a self-help song based on something Mark's dad
used to say. I have also heard that it was based on Carter's
inability to deal with the Iran hostage crisis, but I've never heard
that from Devo directly so I tend not to believe it.
Devo said on VH1 recently that "Whip It" was an anti-Reagan song.
They said it was written to help motivate Carter.
It was the interview where they wore the black energy domes.
Post by Boom
And what past
with Reagan did they want to give the slip? Him being governor of
California, which happened years before Devo moved there? Some of his
shitty movies, maybe? You're talking out of your ass on that one.
The idea is that conserative's values are old-fashioned.
Devo wanted to "go forward, move ahead" and establish new traditions.
Reagan wanted to drag the country back into the past.
I can't believe you don't know this.
Post by Boom
OK, let's take a poll...did anyone else but Gary not understand that
Jerry was trying to show everyone how evil Republicans were with that
line in the crawler? Did anyone also not get that he was trying to
show how Devo was fighting against Republican evil by performing?
That's not how I disagree with you.
I'm saying that getting the date wrong had nothing to do with Jerry's
feeling's toward Reagan.
Post by Boom
Nothing. He had already said as much anyway.
Exactly.
Post by Boom
The fact that he made
it sound like Reagan was already president was just a little added
oomph to it to demonstrate that they were fighting against it by that
show.
No getting the date wrong just gives people an excuse to nitpick.
Post by Boom
Post by Boom
Secret deal my ass. He threatened to go in there and kill 'em all and
they backed down. And Carter's bungled rescue attempt came months
after they first got taken hostage, and after it got bungled, he never
tried again. If that were Reagan, those hostages would have been
freed within two weeks.
Backroom deals ended it. The Islamic world dosen't fear threats.
They go to heaven and have sex with virgins when they die.
Post by Boom
Well it did that too, but it was because of pressure from Reagan that
caused that weight to become even heavier.
Nope. Communism was just bad business. It dosen't work.
Post by Boom
Oh really? Where do you get this information from? He gave weapons
to Iraq to help them fight Iran.
The US kept switching sides between Iran and Iraq and it never really
worked.
Post by Boom
You didn't need Reaganomics for that to happen. That will always
happen in a capitalistic society no matter who's in charge.
It's worse under certain leadership.
Post by Boom
Gawd! I can't believe I'm arguing with you on this! He did it to
show all the evil that Devo was trying to overcome at the time their
gig was taped!
The evil was already present, like a cancer that was ready to strike down a
body.
Post by Boom
Do you not get it at all? Am I the only one who gets
that? Because it sure seems like it's a concept that was spelled out
completely with no room for any other interpretation in the crawler.
Getting the date wrong hurt his rant, it didn't help it.
Post by Boom
But then Devo wouldn't be able to fight "the good fight" against
Reagan's tyrannical regime.
Sure they would. The country was going in that direction.
Post by Boom
I said that to be funny. And it was so very motherfucking funny.
In order to be funny, something must have a kernal of truth.
Jerry making fun of the dead dosen't really work as a joke.
Post by Boom
guess liberals aren't the only ones who can intentionally twist things
around.
Anyone can twist things, but it just wasn't funny because it lacked an
element of truth.
If it had been ironic, it might have been funny, but the literal meaning was
not the opposite of the actual meaning.
That's what I was doing with the "hate America" comment. I was reversing the
meaning by changing the context.
Post by Boom
What the fuck did Kennedy
and Johnson accomplish with the Vietnam war?
Kennedy was going to end it, but got wacked.
Nixon was supposed to end it, but escaladed it.
Post by Boom
In 1984, I was miles better off than I was in 1980. Of course, I'd
like to take credit for most of that myself, just like I would take
the blame if my life got worse.
What about 2004 Vs. four years earlier?
Post by Boom
I can't believe I got sucked into another one of these ridiculous
arguments with you. Your only basis for arguing is that you don't
like the fact that I called your hero Jerry on a so-called mistake he
made
No, I just saying that it undermined his rant, and you think it helped it.
Post by Boom
However, I fully believe that it was no factual error.
As politically aware is Devo is, especially Jerry, you have to be
pretty goddamn naive to think it was an honest factual error.
Not really. These guys are getting older, and screwing things up is not
beyond them.
It's not logical to make an intentional factual error and combine it with a
personal opinion to try to make a point.
Combining a fact with a personal opinion works better.
Gary Childs
2005-09-20 20:19:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
I have also heard that it was based on Carter's
inability to deal with the Iran hostage crisis, but I've never heard
that from Devo directly so I tend not to believe it.
"I thought of 'Whip It' as kind of a Dale Carnegie, 'You Can Do It' song for
Jimmy Carter."
- Mark Motherbaugh (songfacts.com)
Gary Childs
2005-09-20 23:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
Secret deal my ass. He threatened to go in there and kill 'em all and
they backed down.
Oh really? Where do you get this information from? He gave weapons
to Iraq to help them fight Iran. You show me any proof that he ever
sold or gave weapons to Iran while Khomeini was in charge. And by
proof, I don't mean some idiot blogger.
"A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for
hostages. My heart and my best intentions tell me that's true, but the facts
and evidence tell me it is not. As the Tower Board reported, what began as a
strategic opening to Iran deteriorated, in its implementation, into trading
arms for hostages. This runs counter to my own beliefs, to administration
policy, and to the original strategy we had in mind. There are reasons why
it happened, but no excuses. It was a mistake."

- Ronald Reagan March 4th 1987

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reagan/timeline/index_5.html
Gary Childs
2005-09-20 20:46:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
Devo once
recorded a song called "Big Mess," dedicated to Ronald Reagan.
Jerry said this about it:
"It was about a psycho fan who believe we were sending him secret
messages."
Gary Childs
2005-09-16 16:47:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
Post by Todd Spango
For instance, how about "nobody could have anticipated that the levees
would break"?
Led Zeppelin did.
But they didn't cut the funding to improve them, or arrive 5 days after they
broke, or give tax breaks to people who bought SUVs (Stupid Ugly Vehicles)
for that matter.
Boom
2005-09-18 20:46:54 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:47:03 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
Post by Todd Spango
For instance, how about "nobody could have anticipated that the levees
would break"?
Led Zeppelin did.
But they didn't cut the funding to improve them, or arrive 5 days after they
broke, or give tax breaks to people who bought SUVs (Stupid Ugly Vehicles)
for that matter.
I will agree that the whole rescue effort was tremendously bungled.
Todd Spango
2005-09-18 23:42:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:47:03 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
Post by Todd Spango
For instance, how about "nobody could have anticipated that the levees
would break"?
Led Zeppelin did.
But they didn't cut the funding to improve them, or arrive 5 days after they
broke, or give tax breaks to people who bought SUVs (Stupid Ugly Vehicles)
for that matter.
I will agree that the whole rescue effort was tremendously bungled.
It's only par for the course for the Bush circus. Along with the
desperate scrambling to shift blame, and the lies, and the corruption.
For once the false rosy Rovey picture so obviously doesn't fot the
facts that the body politic of this country begins to have doubts.
Todd Spango
2005-09-18 23:32:11 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Boom
On 16 Sep 2005 03:29:53 -0700, "Todd Spango"
Post by Todd Spango
How about "provocateur"? You seem awfully upset over this one
ultimately meaningless factual error. I swear, I can't understand why
this bothers you so much that you have to keep posting and posting and
posting about it. Trust me, dude, there are much bigger lies around
that you could be railing about & it would maybe make a difference.
Right. Like anything in the past has made a difference. At least
give me points for staying on topic.
You have been on this topic for weeks now. Yes, you get credit...
Post by Boom
Post by Todd Spango
For instance, how about "nobody could have anticipated that the levees
would break"?
Led Zeppelin did.
They were just passing on what they learned from Memphis Minnie, who
knew from broken levees, since 1927 at least -- you know, the last time
NO flooded.

What can you make of this lie -- "Brownie, you;re doin' a heck of a
job!"
Boom
2005-09-19 07:15:20 UTC
Permalink
On 18 Sep 2005 16:32:11 -0700, "Todd Spango"
Post by Todd Spango
What can you make of this lie -- "Brownie, you;re doin' a heck of a
job!"
I make of it a guy who is publicly standing up for the people he
hired. You know, stand behind them until you fire them. It's the
American way ;)
Todd Spango
2005-09-20 03:30:39 UTC
Permalink
Should have given him the Medal of Freedom...
Gary Childs
2005-09-16 16:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
Post by Boom
And Jerry is a...?
BTW, don't say "bass player" as an answer ;)
It would be even funnier if he were the drummer.
Then you could also say he couldn't make it as a musician, so he became a
drummer!
Gary Childs
2005-09-16 16:35:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
Bah, if that was a true mistake, I will stick my copy of the CD up my
butt then eat it.
Bon appetit!
Post by Boom
Jerry is no idiot.
No, but he is a human, and makes mistakes.
Post by Boom
He knows full well what he's
doing.
Face it, you're being disingenious. It's not the time era that pisses you
off - it's the message. If he had phrased it that "soon" these events would
be happening; you still would be complaining. Think about it. Why would he
state the wrong time period, if he could simply have said that Reagan took
over a few months after the concert? It's like saying that Christmas falls
on September 25th. It's purely a screw up. It dosen't invalidate his opinion
of Reagan, or make it wrong or right.
Post by Boom
besides, I'm sure he wasn't the only one who saw that crawler
and said something about it before it went out.
There are errors on other Devo CDs and DVDs also.

"Every step I take, every new mistake, each revolving door"
- Devo -
"Don't You Know"
Post by Boom
And Jerry is a...?
Just disliking Republicans dosen't instantly make you a Democrat.

"Admittedly one is much more stupid and low class than the other but in the
end it is indeed a pathetic choice between two losers" -
Devolutionary Times 10/8/04 on Bush Vs. Kerry
Boom
2005-09-18 20:45:35 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:35:46 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary Childs
Face it, you're being disingenious. It's not the time era that pisses you
off - it's the message. If he had phrased it that "soon" these events would
be happening; you still would be complaining. Think about it.
That is where you are absolutely wrong. I have no problem with
anyone's political affiliation or their right to speak up about it. I
know tons of democrats and even like a couple, and believe it or not,
I actually voted for Kerry, even though I thought he sucked and is
more out of touch with the working class than Bush is. I only voted
for Kerry, though, because I didn't want to see Bush load the Supreme
Court down with right-wingers, not that I had a problem with how Bush
has been handling the most tumultuous time in American history since
the Revolution.
Post by Gary Childs
Why would he
state the wrong time period, if he could simply have said that Reagan took
over a few months after the concert? It's like saying that Christmas falls
on September 25th. It's purely a screw up. It dosen't invalidate his opinion
of Reagan, or make it wrong or right.
Bah, you're drinking the Kasale Kool-aid if you truly believe that.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
besides, I'm sure he wasn't the only one who saw that crawler
and said something about it before it went out.
There are errors on other Devo CDs and DVDs also.
Such as?

No, there are no mistakes. There is only revisionist history on Devo
records.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
And Jerry is a...?
Just disliking Republicans dosen't instantly make you a Democrat.
He's freely admitted to being a liberal. Maybe he's in the Green
party. I know he doesn't have any particular fondness for either
side, but he has stated on many occasions that he's a liberal.
Post by Gary Childs
"Admittedly one is much more stupid and low class than the other but in the
end it is indeed a pathetic choice between two losers" -
Devolutionary Times 10/8/04 on Bush Vs. Kerry
Right. That makes him a grudging Democrat. But still a Democrat.
He's what I call an anti-politician. But if you held a gun to his
head and asked him what he's registered as to vote, what do you think
the answer will be?
Gary Childs
2005-09-18 21:17:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
Post by Gary Childs
There are errors on other Devo CDs and DVDs also.
Such as?
Track numbering errors on the Complete Truth DVD, and The Mongoloid Years
CD.
Nobody in the "legion" of workers caught them.
Post by Boom
No, there are no mistakes. There is only revisionist history on Devo
records.
Such as?
Post by Boom
Right. That makes him a grudging Democrat. But still a Democrat.
Not necessarily.
Post by Boom
But if you held a gun to his
head and asked him what he's registered as to vote, what do you think
the answer will be?
You can be an independent voter. I am.
Boom
2005-09-19 07:13:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:17:26 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary Childs
Track numbering errors on the Complete Truth DVD, and The Mongoloid Years
CD.
Nobody in the "legion" of workers caught them.
Track numbering errors. That is the best you can do? BTW, I'm not
aware of any errors on the Mongoloid years CD, but on the Complete
Truth, the numbering errors are because of the Pioneer laserdics ads
and the dropping of Are You Experienced from the DVD. But I will take
your word for the Mongoloid Years because I'm too lazy to go get the
CD and check it for myself.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
No, there are no mistakes. There is only revisionist history on Devo
records.
Such as?
Such as every song they've ever written. Devo's whole concept is
revisionist history. They revised the whole evolution theory to suit
their concept.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by Boom
Right. That makes him a grudging Democrat. But still a Democrat.
Not necessarily.
Post by Boom
But if you held a gun to his
head and asked him what he's registered as to vote, what do you think
the answer will be?
You can be an independent voter. I am.
Whatever.
Gary Childs
2005-09-19 15:48:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
Such as every song they've ever written.
Even the love songs?
Post by Boom
Devo's whole concept is
revisionist history. They revised the whole evolution theory to suit
their concept.
I think de-evolution explains discrepancies in evolution.
The fittest shall survive, yet the unfit may live.
It's never straight up and down.
But few of Devo's songs are about history.
Post by Boom
Whatever.
This is my United States of whatever!
Todd Spango
2005-09-18 23:22:50 UTC
Permalink
Oh, by the way -- I'm diggin' the DVD. I may have a defective copy,
though. arrghh!
Post by Boom
I have no problem with
anyone's political affiliation or their right to speak up about it. I
know tons of democrats and even like a couple, and believe it or not,
I actually voted for Kerry, even though I thought he sucked and is
more out of touch with the working class than Bush is. I only voted
for Kerry, though, because I didn't want to see Bush load the Supreme
Court down with right-wingers,
I actually kinda like this Roberts guy. The hardcore righties are
upset, though. Here again, Bush is screwing up. He promised a Thomas
or a Scalia and he delivers a Souter.
Post by Boom
not that I had a problem with how Bush
has been handling the most tumultuous time in American history since
the Revolution.
That's a rather broad overstatement. What aboutf the Great Depression,
or the Civil War? As far as "tumultuous times" go, I think this may
not even rank top 5. It's really just the 60's come 'round again, in a
lot of ways.
Post by Boom
No, there are no mistakes. There is only revisionist history on Devo
records.
I think you oughtta notch down the paranoia a bit... I really don't
understand why this bugs you so much.
Boom
2005-09-16 07:14:50 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:11:31 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Gary Childs
I didn't pay $15.00 for their grafted on political views.
Grafted on? Jerry started Devo after almost being gunned down by troops sent
into Kent State by a Republican President.
Their political views were subtle, but were always there.
They put American flags on the cover of Freedom Of Choice.
I guess you hate America.
Right, because when someone complains about a political message on a
music DVD, the next logical conclusion would be that they hate
America. Makes perfect sense.
Gary Childs
2005-09-16 17:48:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boom
Right, because when someone complains about a political message on a
music DVD, the next logical conclusion would be that they hate
America. Makes perfect sense.
Exactly. I was mocking the conservative notion that if you criticize
anything about America, it means you hate America.
Now stop whining! (that's another classic)
f-erenc szabo
2005-10-09 03:13:18 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:11:31 -0400, "Gary Childs"
Post by Boom
Post by Gary Childs
Jerry started Devo after almost being gunned down by troops sent
into Kent State by a Republican President.
Their political views were subtle, but were always there.
They put American flags on the cover of Freedom Of Choice.
I guess you hate America.
Right, because when someone complains about a political message on a
music DVD, the next logical conclusion would be that they hate
America. Makes perfect sense.
Duh... he doesn't hate America. He's with the terrorists.
Big difference.

f-erenc szabo

ƒ®∂nk p∂ⁿuCĉI
2005-09-15 06:19:35 UTC
Permalink
I didn't pay $15.00 for their grafted on political views
And yet, you got them anyway. Consider it a bonus!



____________________
www.frankpanucci.com
http://reperkussionz.blogspot.com/
Boom
2005-09-15 11:20:54 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 06:19:35 GMT, Ĩ?nk p??uC?I
Post by ƒ®∂nk p∂ⁿuCĉI
I didn't pay $15.00 for their grafted on political views
And yet, you got them anyway. Consider it a bonus!
Not only did you get their political views, you got them based on
wrong information, as Reagan wasn't President in 1980!
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