DEVO Fundraiser for SubGenius Cult Mother

[Modemac]

http://tinyurl.com/658rsc

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Bruce Perry
JOCKO DOME-O Manager / Curator
***@devodude.com

August 18, 2008: The Asterisk Gallery, located in Cleveland, Ohio, is
hosting a fund-raiser on Friday, August 29, 2008 for a SubGenius cult
minister who acquired over $140,000 in legal costs in her ongoing
struggle to regain custody of her son, after the child was taken away
from her based on her religious beliefs.

Rachel Bevilacqua is a high-ranking member of the Church of the
SubGenius, known far and wide as a "parody religion" that engages in
satire, performance art, and comedy in a manner widely seen as a spoof
of dangerous religious cults. In December of 2005, she became involved
in a legal dispute regarding custody of her ten-year-old son, though
she and the father of the boy had never been married. Rachel had
raised her son with her husband, Steve Bevilacqua, and exercised
custody from birth, with the father of the child retaining visitation
rights. As with many separated couples, this agreement had been
followed by each parent, until the father took steps to request sole
custody of the child in December of 2005.

Domestic custody battles take place daily in the court system, but
this case took a turn into strange territory on February 3, 2006, when
Rachel Bevilacqua's chosen religion was introduced in the court room.
Her son's father introduced photos of her performing at the annual
SubGenius "X-Day" festival, including participation in an
unquestionably adult-oriented parody of Mel Gibson's blockbuster movie
The Passion of the Christ. In the SubGenius parody, Jesus Christ is
dressed in clown makeup and carrying a cross fashioned in the shape of
a dollar sign, while dozens of members of the Church of the SubGenius
beat him with sexual toys and objects. This performance was enough to
outrage Judge James Punch (Orleans, NY), who subsequently removed
custody of Bevilacqua's son and ordered sole custody to be granted to
the father.

Rachel's case soon reached the Internet, where it became a rallying
cry for advocates in favor of free expression and free speech. Such
popular online sites as Boing Boing and Fark spread the word far and
wide, casting Bevilacqua as a victim of a legal system that apparently
failed to recognize the right to engage in parody, and of a judge who,
as quoted in a famous SubGenius slogan, "couldn't take a joke."

Rachel's son has never attended any SubGenius events, which are often
adults-only and frequently encourage participants to engage in
activities considered offensive and blasphemous to many religious
beliefs.

The boy's father, Jeff Jary, was represented pro-bono by a personal
friend. The ongoing court case saw numerous delaying tactics by Jary's
lawyer, which resulted in the case being extended for the remainder of
2006 and the first six months of 2007, and over $140,000 in legal
costs to Rachel Bevilacqua.

Following the word of this case being spread on the Internet, Judge
Punch recused himself without comment. The case was re-assigned to
Judge Eric R. Adams of Batavia, New York. In August of 2007, after
months of delays, conflicting judicial orders, the return of Judge
Punch to the custody case, and the arrest and incarceration of the
father on a drunken driving charge, custody of Rachel's son was
finally awarded to her.

Despite this victory, as of August of 2008 Rachel is still under a
court order forbidding her from keeping any SubGenius materials in her
home.

The Asterisk Gallery has volunteered to host the JOCKO DOME-O
fundraiser for Rachel Bevilacqua's legal fund, on the evening of
Friday, August 29th. Jocko Dome-o is a charitable event in which
professional and up-and-coming artists from around the country have
been invited to creatively alter their own Energy Dome —- the classic
headgear made famous by new wave band DEVO, and featured in their 1980
music video Whip It. Participating artists include, but are not
limited to:

Kimberly Bailey Bradley Cahill
Sarah Doyle
Kristin Edwards (She-vo)
Laszlo Gyorki
Sharon Iglai
Robert Lara
Julie Marton
Josh Mcleod
Robert Miltenberg
Bruce Perry
Robin Reneé
Mal Rorrer
KRK Ryden
Winston Smith
Rev. Ivan Stang
Susie the Floozie
Jeff Warmouth
Byron Werner
Rev. Nickie Wild

The finished pieces will be on display at the Asterisk Gallery on
August 29th, and will include a variety of styles and techniques, from
paint and collage to fantastic and even utilitarian artwork. The show
will run as companion to KRK Ryden’s Devonian Art Show (opening on the
same day). Displayed pieces will be up for sale to benefit the Rachel
Bevilacqua legal fund. The show hours will be 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM, and
it will be one day only!

Rachel Bevilacqua's associates have begun a Web-based fundraiser to
allow interested persons to donate to her legal fund. Since the site's
foundation on March 10, 2007, over $7,400 has been raised for her
legal costs. However, there is a long way to go, and additional
donations are being sought.

For further information:

Asterisk Gallery: http://www.asteriskgallery.com

Jocko Dome-o: http://devodude.com/jocko/jockodomeo.htm

Reverend Magdalen (Rachel Bevilacqua) custody case:
http://www.modemac.com/wiki/Reverend_Magdalen

The Church of the SubGenius: http://www.subgenius.com

--
The High Weirdness Project
http://www.modemac.com

[Modemac]

Please Digg this: http://tinyurl.com/6flhyq

[Rev. Richard Skull]

Post by Modemac
http://tinyurl.com/658rsc
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Bruce Perry
JOCKO DOME-O Manager / Curator
August 18, 2008: The Asterisk Gallery, located in Cleveland, Ohio, is
hosting a fund-raiser on Friday, August 29, 2008 for a SubGenius cult
minister who acquired over $140,000 in legal costs in her ongoing
struggle to regain custody of her son, after the child was taken away
from her based on her religious beliefs.
Rachel Bevilacqua is a high-ranking member of the Church of the
SubGenius, known far and wide as a "parody religion" that engages in
satire, performance art, and comedy in a manner widely seen as a spoof
of dangerous religious cults. In December of 2005, she became involved
in a legal dispute regarding custody of her ten-year-old son, though
she and the father of the boy had never been married. Rachel had
raised her son with her husband, Steve Bevilacqua, and exercised
custody from birth, with the father of the child retaining visitation
rights. As with many separated couples, this agreement had been
followed by each parent, until the father took steps to request sole
custody of the child in December of 2005.
Domestic custody battles take place daily in the court system, but
this case took a turn into strange territory on February 3, 2006, when
Rachel Bevilacqua's chosen religion was introduced in the court room.
Her son's father introduced photos of her performing at the annual
SubGenius "X-Day" festival, including participation in an
unquestionably adult-oriented parody of Mel Gibson's blockbuster movie
The Passion of the Christ. In the SubGenius parody, Jesus Christ is
dressed in clown makeup and carrying a cross fashioned in the shape of
a dollar sign, while dozens of members of the Church of the SubGenius
beat him with sexual toys and objects. This performance was enough to
outrage Judge James Punch (Orleans, NY), who subsequently removed
custody of Bevilacqua's son and ordered sole custody to be granted to
the father.
Rachel's case soon reached the Internet, where it became a rallying
cry for advocates in favor of free expression and free speech. Such
popular online sites as Boing Boing and Fark spread the word far and
wide, casting Bevilacqua as a victim of a legal system that apparently
failed to recognize the right to engage in parody, and of a judge who,
as quoted in a famous SubGenius slogan, "couldn't take a joke."
Rachel's son has never attended any SubGenius events, which are often
adults-only and frequently encourage participants to engage in
activities considered offensive and blasphemous to many religious
beliefs.
The boy's father, Jeff Jary, was represented pro-bono by a personal
friend. The ongoing court case saw numerous delaying tactics by Jary's
lawyer, which resulted in the case being extended for the remainder of
2006 and the first six months of 2007, and over $140,000 in legal
costs to Rachel Bevilacqua.
Following the word of this case being spread on the Internet, Judge
Punch recused himself without comment. The case was re-assigned to
Judge Eric R. Adams of Batavia, New York. In August of 2007, after
months of delays, conflicting judicial orders, the return of Judge
Punch to the custody case, and the arrest and incarceration of the
father on a drunken driving charge, custody of Rachel's son was
finally awarded to her.
Despite this victory, as of August of 2008 Rachel is still under a
court order forbidding her from keeping any SubGenius materials in her
home.
The Asterisk Gallery has volunteered to host the JOCKO DOME-O
fundraiser for Rachel Bevilacqua's legal fund, on the evening of
Friday, August 29th. Jocko Dome-o is a charitable event in which
professional and up-and-coming artists from around the country have
been invited to creatively alter their own Energy Dome —- the classic
headgear made famous by new wave band DEVO, and featured in their 1980
music video Whip It. Participating artists include, but are not
    Kimberly Bailey Bradley Cahill
    Sarah Doyle
    Kristin Edwards (She-vo)
    Laszlo Gyorki
    Sharon Iglai
    Robert Lara
    Julie Marton
    Josh Mcleod
    Robert Miltenberg
    Bruce Perry
    Robin Reneé
    Mal Rorrer
    KRK Ryden
    Winston Smith
    Rev. Ivan Stang
    Susie the Floozie
    Jeff Warmouth
    Byron Werner
    Rev. Nickie Wild
The finished pieces will be on display at the Asterisk Gallery on
August 29th, and will include a variety of styles and techniques, from
paint and collage to fantastic and even utilitarian artwork. The show
will run as companion to KRK Ryden’s Devonian Art Show (opening on the
same day). Displayed pieces will be up for sale to benefit the Rachel
Bevilacqua legal fund. The show hours will be 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM, and
it will be one day only!
Rachel Bevilacqua's associates have begun a Web-based fundraiser to
allow interested persons to donate to her legal fund. Since the site's
foundation on March 10, 2007, over $7,400 has been raised for her
legal costs. However, there is a long way to go, and additional
donations are being sought.
    Asterisk Gallery:http://www.asteriskgallery.com
    Jocko Dome-o:http://devodude.com/jocko/jockodomeo.htm
    Reverend Magdalen (Rachel Bevilacqua) custody case:http://www.modemac.com/wiki/Reverend_Magdalen
    The Church of the SubGenius:http://www.subgenius.com
--
                        The High Weirdness Project
                         http://www.modemac.com

Thats Subgenius DEATH Cult!

LEts not make the Spuds here think were are one of those limp wristed
girly-boy cults like the Branch Davidians or Amway!

[nospam]

Post by Modemac
August 18, 2008: The Asterisk Gallery, located in Cleveland, Ohio, is
hosting a fund-raiser on Friday, August 29, 2008 for a SubGenius cult
minister who acquired over $140,000 in legal costs in her ongoing
struggle to regain custody of her son, after the child was taken away
from her based on her religious beliefs.

Excuse me, but this stinks of a real scam. It's been what, three years
now?, and we're still waiting for a shred of hard evidence about this
supposed court order regarding SubGenius materials. And still all
anyone has is Rachel's claim that a verbal order was made.

Personally I don't buy it.

Also, in the original court order that awarded custody of her son to
his father, it says:

"We note in particular the testimony of the expert witnesses indicating
that the father was better able to provide for the child’s emotional
development >>> and the fact that the child expressed the desire to
reside with the father <<<"

So, we're supposed to help pay Rachel's legal fees because her son
wanted to live with his dad instead of her? Sorry, I only look stupid.

[Rev Egg Plant]

Post by nospam

Post by Modemac
August 18, 2008: The Asterisk Gallery, located in Cleveland, Ohio, is
hosting a fund-raiser on Friday, August 29, 2008 for a SubGenius cult
minister who acquired over $140,000 in legal costs in her ongoing
struggle to regain custody of her son, after the child was taken away
from her based on her religious beliefs.

Excuse me, but this stinks of a real scam. It's been what, three years
now?, and we're still waiting for a shred of hard evidence about this
supposed court order regarding SubGenius materials. And still all
anyone has is Rachel's claim that a verbal order was made.
Personally I don't buy it.
Also, in the original court order that awarded custody of her son to
"We note in particular the testimony of the expert witnesses indicating
that the father was better able to provide for the child’s emotional
development >>> and the fact that the child expressed the desire to
reside with the father <<<"
So, we're supposed to help pay Rachel's legal fees because her son
wanted to live with his dad instead of her? Sorry, I only look stupid.

If you'd read the order that originally issued regarding custody
arrangements, it's stated clearly within the stipulation banning her
keeping SubGenius anywhere but in a locked office away from her son.

As to him stating where he wanted to live, he was 10-years-old at the
time, well below the age of consent. With the circumstances of his
whole life turned suddenly upside down and the suspicion that Daddy
coached him, I'd not rely on the child's wishes at all.

Still, that doesn't mean that the Bevilacqua's don't have $120k in legal
debt to defray because the boy's father acted an ass.

[Rev. Richard Skull]

Post by Rev Egg Plant

Post by Modemac
August 18, 2008: The Asterisk Gallery, located in Cleveland, Ohio, is
hosting a fund-raiser on Friday, August 29, 2008 for a SubGenius cult
minister who acquired over $140,000 in legal costs in her ongoing
struggle to regain custody of her son, after the child was taken away
from her based on her religious beliefs.

Excuse me, but this stinks of a real scam.  It's been what, three years
now?, and we're still waiting for a shred of hard evidence about this
supposed court order regarding SubGenius materials.  And still all
anyone has is Rachel's claim that a verbal order was made.
Personally I don't buy it.
Also, in the original court order that awarded custody of her son to
"We note in particular the testimony of the expert witnesses indicating
that the father was better able to provide for the child’s emotional
development >>> and the fact that the child expressed the desire to
reside with the father <<<"
So, we're supposed to help pay Rachel's legal fees because her son
wanted to live with his dad instead of her?  Sorry, I only look stupid.

If you'd read the order that originally issued regarding custody
arrangements, it's stated clearly within the stipulation banning her
keeping SubGenius anywhere but in a locked office away from her son.
As to him stating where he wanted to live, he was 10-years-old at the
time, well below the age of consent.  With the circumstances of his
whole life turned suddenly upside down and the suspicion that Daddy
coached him, I'd not rely on the child's wishes at all.
Still, that doesn't mean that the Bevilacqua's don't have $120k in legal
debt to defray because the boy's father acted an ass.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

After the boy's dad finally gets out of Prison, his ass will probally
be too sore to worry about anything else!

But this was never about "the boy." It was about how Rev. Magdeline
left the backwoods of Upstate New York, amrried a smart and
successfull Subgenius (who also doubles as Jesus in his off time) and
moved away to Georgia (not the one invaded by the Russians, the one
that needs to be invaded by the Russians) where they had such things
as a house that did not come with wheels amd set on cinder blocks,
regular income that did not come from some Government Handout (cronic
fatigue syndrom my ass!) and a future life that might actually allow
said boy to grow & thrive!

Thanks to all this, the "boy" missed his chance to live in London
(England, not Ontario). Just imagine what he would have learned and
seen there! HE could have ridden a trian through the Chunnel and seen
alll the historic sites of Europe where the Catholic Church over throw
the Kings they did not lie, burned the jews they did not like, and
suppressed the Science they did not like.

No, he had to live in a broken down Mobile home with his father
(notice I did call him a "Dad") enjoying they highlight of 'Merikin
Culture, RASTLING! & NASCAR!

[nospam]

Post by Rev Egg Plant

Post by Modemac
August 18, 2008: The Asterisk Gallery, located in Cleveland, Ohio, is
hosting a fund-raiser on Friday, August 29, 2008 for a SubGenius cult
minister who acquired over $140,000 in legal costs in her ongoing
struggle to regain custody of her son, after the child was taken away
from her based on her religious beliefs.

Excuse me, but this stinks of a real scam. It's been what, three years
now?, and we're still waiting for a shred of hard evidence about this
supposed court order regarding SubGenius materials. And still all
anyone has is Rachel's claim that a verbal order was made.
Personally I don't buy it.
Also, in the original court order that awarded custody of her son to
"We note in particular the testimony of the expert witnesses indicating
that the father was better able to provide for the child’s emotional
development >>> and the fact that the child expressed the desire to
reside with the father <<<"
So, we're supposed to help pay Rachel's legal fees because her son
wanted to live with his dad instead of her? Sorry, I only look stupid.

If you'd read the order that originally issued regarding custody
arrangements, it's stated clearly within the stipulation banning her
keeping SubGenius anywhere but in a locked office away from her son.
As to him stating where he wanted to live, he was 10-years-old at the
time, well below the age of consent. With the circumstances of his
whole life turned suddenly upside down and the suspicion that Daddy
coached him, I'd not rely on the child's wishes at all.
Still, that doesn't mean that the Bevilacqua's don't have $120k in legal
debt to defray because the boy's father acted an ass.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

After the boy's dad finally gets out of Prison, his ass will probally
be too sore to worry about anything else!

But this was never about "the boy." It was about how Rev. Magdeline
left the backwoods of Upstate New York, amrried a smart and
successfull Subgenius (who also doubles as Jesus in his off time) and
moved away to Georgia (not the one invaded by the Russians, the one
that needs to be invaded by the Russians) where they had such things
as a house that did not come with wheels amd set on cinder blocks,
regular income that did not come from some Government Handout (cronic
fatigue syndrom my ass!) and a future life that might actually allow
said boy to grow & thrive!

Thanks to all this, the "boy" missed his chance to live in London
(England, not Ontario). Just imagine what he would have learned and
seen there! HE could have ridden a trian through the Chunnel and seen
alll the historic sites of Europe where the Catholic Church over throw
the Kings they did not lie, burned the jews they did not like, and
suppressed the Science they did not like.

No, he had to live in a broken down Mobile home with his father
(notice I did call him a "Dad") enjoying they highlight of 'Merikin
Culture, RASTLING! & NASCAR!

---------------

10 years old is beyond the age of reason, and it's old enough in most
U.S. courts for it to give controlling weight to what a boy says he wants
for himself. Most other factors are secondary, as they should be IMO.

As for the court order, my reading is that Rachel told the judge the
Church of the SubGenius is not a church. That was incorrect, and it's
probably why Punch mistakenly believed he was entitled to dictate
about the group's materials.

I don't mean to come off as a hard-ass here. I hope Rachel gets her
legal fees paid and winds up with permanent full-time custody of her
son, if that's what her son wants.

[Rev. Richard Skull]

Post by Rev. Richard Skull

Post by Rev Egg Plant

Post by Modemac
August 18, 2008: The Asterisk Gallery, located in Cleveland, Ohio, is
hosting a fund-raiser on Friday, August 29, 2008 for a SubGenius cult
minister who acquired over $140,000 in legal costs in her ongoing
struggle to regain custody of her son, after the child was taken away
from her based on her religious beliefs.

Excuse me, but this stinks of a real scam. It's been what, three years
now?, and we're still waiting for a shred of hard evidence about this
supposed court order regarding SubGenius materials. And still all
anyone has is Rachel's claim that a verbal order was made.
Personally I don't buy it.
Also, in the original court order that awarded custody of her son to
"We note in particular the testimony of the expert witnesses indicating
that the father was better able to provide for the child’s emotional
development >>> and the fact that the child expressed the desire to
reside with the father <<<"
So, we're supposed to help pay Rachel's legal fees because her son
wanted to live with his dad instead of her? Sorry, I only look stupid.

If you'd read the order that originally issued regarding custody
arrangements, it's stated clearly within the stipulation banning her
keeping SubGenius anywhere but in a locked office away from her son.
As to him stating where he wanted to live, he was 10-years-old at the
time, well below the age of consent. With the circumstances of his
whole life turned suddenly upside down and the suspicion that Daddy
coached him, I'd not rely on the child's wishes at all.
Still, that doesn't mean that the Bevilacqua's don't have $120k in legal
debt to defray because the boy's father acted an ass.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

After the boy's dad finally gets out of Prison, his ass will probally
be too sore to worry about anything else!
But this was never about "the boy." It was about how Rev. Magdeline
left the backwoods of Upstate New York, amrried a smart and
successfull Subgenius (who also doubles as Jesus in his off time) and
moved away to Georgia (not the one invaded by the Russians, the one
that needs to be invaded by the Russians) where they had such things
as a house that did not come with wheels amd set on cinder blocks,
regular income that did not come from some Government Handout (cronic
fatigue syndrom my ass!) and a future life that might actually allow
said boy to grow & thrive!
Thanks to all this, the "boy" missed his chance to live in London
(England, not Ontario). Just imagine what he would have learned and
seen there! HE could have ridden a trian through the Chunnel and seen
alll the historic sites of Europe where the Catholic Church over throw
the Kings they did not lie, burned the jews they did not like, and
suppressed the Science they did not like.
No, he had to live in a broken down Mobile home with his father
(notice I did call him a "Dad") enjoying they highlight of 'Merikin
Culture, RASTLING! & NASCAR!
---------------
10 years old is beyond the age of reason, and it's old enough in most
U.S. courts for it to give controlling weight to what a boy says he wants
for himself.  Most other factors are secondary, as they should be IMO.
As for the court order, my reading is that Rachel told the judge the
Church of the SubGenius is not a church.  That was incorrect, and it's
probably why Punch mistakenly believed he was entitled to dictate
about the group's materials.
I don't mean to come off as a hard-ass here.  I hope Rachel gets her
legal fees paid and winds up with permanent full-time custody of her
son, if that's what her son wants.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

What? The Church of the Subgenius is not a church?

You mean, all these years Stang has been taking my money and giving me
nothing in return?

Wait, I guess the Church of the Subgenis IS a Church after all!

[unknown]

nospam hunched over a computer, typing feverishly;

Post by nospam
10 years old is beyond the age of reason, and it's old enough in most
U.S. courts for it to give controlling weight to what a boy says he wants
for himself. Most other factors are secondary, as they should be IMO.

As somebody else already said, it's not at all unreasonable, under the
circumstances, to suppose that the kid was coached by his father.

In fact I saw a very similar thing happen very recently, a custody
case where the child was coached to say it wanted to stay with one
parent, where from what I know of the situation, that child was very
unhappy with that parent before and after.

A child that young is eager to please and easy to pressure.

Now that's supposition, but I am familiar with the two people involved
to some extent, and I know they had a very happy and healthy
relationship. The father, although I know little about him, seems
like a real jerk. So while I don't know what happened, it does seem
like the kid claiming he wanted to stay with his father is strange,
and a little supposition seems realistic.

Post by nospam
As for the court order, my reading is that Rachel told the judge the
Church of the SubGenius is not a church. That was incorrect, and it's
probably why Punch mistakenly believed he was entitled to dictate
about the group's materials.

The order is still in place, and it has since been made abundantly
clear.

But that to me isn't the point. That he would dictate what she can
and can't keep in her house at all strikes me as being borderline
fascism. Now, if we were talking about things that could
realistically be construed as dangerous, maybe I could see it.
Literature about drugs. I don't know if I would agree, but I could at
least see it. Nazi literature.

But where has any of this been shown to be really detrimental to the
son? True, maybe, arguably, the pictures which came up in court, they
were pretty freaky. But there's no question but that the child has
been shielded from that kind of thing, mommy in outfits that he might
not understand and might be disturbed by. Again, I don't know that I
completely agree, but OK I can see the logic at least.

But it's very clear. Read the court transcripts. The SubGenius ban
was basically because Judge Punch didn't like the SubGenius stuff.

I am not arguing in a big way one way or another about the ban. I am
just pointing out that you do not seem very clear on what it's about.

Post by nospam
I don't mean to come off as a hard-ass here. I hope Rachel gets her
legal fees paid and winds up with permanent full-time custody of her
son, if that's what her son wants.

I don't think you're coming off as a hard-ass, but I think you're
coming off as somewhat of a dumbass.

You don't seem very familiar with the people or the situation, at
least in some important ways (like what I talked about above).

But you are willing to come along and basically claim that the
situation is a scam, and that the mother is trying to scam everybody.

To people who know her, that's extremely offensive.

If you don't find her case convincing, fine, don't contribute to it.
If you are curious about it and are trying to get a clearer idea of
what happened, feel free to ask people involved with this about it,
some of us have been following this very closely and felt very
personal about it.

But don't come along and accuse somebody you don't know of being a
scammer in a situation you obviously don't know much about.

That's just offensive.

[Glenn Knickerbocker]

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:36:12 -0700, Zapanaz

Post by unknown
To people who know her, that's extremely offensive.

Even to people who have only experienced from a distance a tiny bit
of the personal generosity of people who know her, it's offensive.

http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/bluemoon.html / I haven't laughed
¬R / so hard since I was waiting to see 'The Aristocrats!' --Cam

[nospam]

Post by unknown
nospam hunched over a computer, typing feverishly;

Post by nospam
10 years old is beyond the age of reason, and it's old enough in most
U.S. courts for it to give controlling weight to what a boy says he wants
for himself. Most other factors are secondary, as they should be IMO.

As somebody else already said, it's not at all unreasonable, under the
circumstances, to suppose that the kid was coached by his father.
In fact I saw a very similar thing happen very recently, a custody
case where the child was coached to say it wanted to stay with one
parent, where from what I know of the situation, that child was very
unhappy with that parent before and after.
A child that young is eager to please and easy to pressure.
Now that's supposition, but I am familiar with the two people involved
to some extent, and I know they had a very happy and healthy
relationship. The father, although I know little about him, seems
like a real jerk. So while I don't know what happened, it does seem
like the kid claiming he wanted to stay with his father is strange,
and a little supposition seems realistic.

Post by nospam
As for the court order, my reading is that Rachel told the judge the
Church of the SubGenius is not a church. That was incorrect, and it's
probably why Punch mistakenly believed he was entitled to dictate
about the group's materials.

The order is still in place, and it has since been made abundantly
clear.
But that to me isn't the point. That he would dictate what she can
and can't keep in her house at all strikes me as being borderline
fascism. Now, if we were talking about things that could
realistically be construed as dangerous, maybe I could see it.
Literature about drugs. I don't know if I would agree, but I could at
least see it. Nazi literature.
But where has any of this been shown to be really detrimental to the
son? True, maybe, arguably, the pictures which came up in court, they
were pretty freaky. But there's no question but that the child has
been shielded from that kind of thing, mommy in outfits that he might
not understand and might be disturbed by. Again, I don't know that I
completely agree, but OK I can see the logic at least.

Hey I'd be the first to call this judge a fascist idiot. If the written record
is accurate I would have done so right to his face. Sounds like he had a
major hissy fit. But it was Rachel's responsibility to explain these photos
accurately. Once it was made clear the photos, however bizarre, were
taken during an annual celebration of an established church, Punch would
(or at least should) have known his jurisdiction in the matter was extremely
limited. Unless members were shown breaking laws, he'd have no
jurisdiction whatsoever over their "materials".

Has Rachel ever explained why she told the judge the Subgenius isn't a
church? Ignorance of this question seems impossible, given her position
within the group.

Post by unknown
But it's very clear. Read the court transcripts. The SubGenius ban
was basically because Judge Punch didn't like the SubGenius stuff.
I am not arguing in a big way one way or another about the ban. I am
just pointing out that you do not seem very clear on what it's about.

Post by nospam
I don't mean to come off as a hard-ass here. I hope Rachel gets her
legal fees paid and winds up with permanent full-time custody of her
son, if that's what her son wants.

I don't think you're coming off as a hard-ass, but I think you're
coming off as somewhat of a dumbass.
You don't seem very familiar with the people or the situation, at
least in some important ways (like what I talked about above).
But you are willing to come along and basically claim that the
situation is a scam, and that the mother is trying to scam everybody.
To people who know her, that's extremely offensive.

Yes, and if she happens to read this I apologize to her. I'm not a
regular reader of either alt.slack or alt.discordia, and came across
the post in alt.fan.devo. Should have researched a bit more before
posting. Sorry.

[RevNickie]

Post by nospam
Has Rachel ever explained why she told the judge the Subgenius isn't a
church?  Ignorance of this question seems impossible, given her position
within the group.

Why do you keep insisting that SubGenius is a "church" in any kind of
recognized sense? Do you think the Conspiracy will let us have the
freedoms of performing our rituals with impunity?

Look, asshole. You're out of your tiny little excuse for a mind. Try
leaving your house every once in a while. Have you ever dealt with
family court? Have you any concept of small town judges who, according
to NY state law/tradition/backwoods culture need have no legal
credentials whatsoever in order to be elected a judge? Try reading
something every now and then about the real world, since you clearly
have no experience of it.

Being the one who wrote the vignette that got the Bevilacqua family in
this situation, and actually being there through a bunch of this
custody battle stuff, I am one of those people who find your butting
in to something you know zero about extremely offensive. Crawl back
into your mom's basement, please.

-RevNickie

[nospam]

Post by nospam
Has Rachel ever explained why she told the judge the Subgenius isn't a
church? Ignorance of this question seems impossible, given her position
within the group.
Why do you keep insisting that SubGenius is a "church" in any kind of
recognized sense?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius

Is there a better word for "religious group"? They even solicit new
legal ministers on their webpage.

Post by nospam
Do you think the Conspiracy will let us have the
freedoms of performing our rituals with impunity?

You're damned right it would, unless y'all are breaking laws.

I'll skip the rest of your ad hominem, for the sake of people who
wish to read about Devo and wind up reading about Rachel
Bevilacqua's child custody battle. You fucking retard.

[Rev. Ivan Stang]

Post by nospam

Post by nospam
Has Rachel ever explained why she told the judge the Subgenius isn't a
church? Ignorance of this question seems impossible, given her position
within the group.
Why do you keep insisting that SubGenius is a "church" in any kind of
recognized sense?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius
Is there a better word for "religious group"? They even solicit new
legal ministers on their webpage.

Thanks for explaining the Church of the SubGenius for us.

Post by nospam

Post by nospam
Do you think the Conspiracy will let us have the
freedoms of performing our rituals with impunity?

You're damned right it would, unless y'all are breaking laws.
I'll skip the rest of your ad hominem, for the sake of people who
wish to read about Devo and wind up reading about Rachel
Bevilacqua's child custody battle. You fucking retard.

Somebody points ou

[nospam]

Post by Rev. Ivan Stang

Post by nospam

Post by nospam
Has Rachel ever explained why she told the judge the Subgenius isn't a
church? Ignorance of this question seems impossible, given her position
within the group.
Why do you keep insisting that SubGenius is a "church" in any kind of
recognized sense?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius
Is there a better word for "religious group"? They even solicit new
legal ministers on their webpage.

Thanks for explaining the Church of the SubGenius for us.

Give me a break. I apologized for my initial post, and Rev. Nickie
returned the gesture by coming down on my head with a huge pile
of guilt bricks. You do the math.

[RevNickie]

Give me a break.  I apologized for my initial post, and Rev. Nickie
returned the gesture by coming down on my head with a huge pile
of guilt bricks.  You do the math.

And you deserve every bit of it. And as far as the Con letting us do
what we want "unless y'all are breaking laws," you really don't know
what we're up against. I did mention the fact that judges in NY state
are elected, and don't have to have credentials. There are literally
hundreds of horror stories of people falling victim to said judges
making up their own laws.

Not to mention the Conspiracy law that dictates "no SubGenius can do
what it wants." I really suggest you look into that before leaving the
basement.

-RevNickie

[Modemac]

Post by RevNickie
I did mention the fact that judges in NY state
are elected, and don't have to have credentials.

Judge Punch's term officially ends in 2010, though I'd heard an
(unconfirmed) rumor that he's recently retired due to illness.

[unknown]

nospam hunched over a computer, typing feverishly;

Post by nospam

Post by Rev. Ivan Stang

Post by nospam

Post by nospam
Has Rachel ever explained why she told the judge the Subgenius isn't a
church? Ignorance of this question seems impossible, given her position
within the group.
Why do you keep insisting that SubGenius is a "church" in any kind of
recognized sense?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius
Is there a better word for "religious group"? They even solicit new
legal ministers on their webpage.

Thanks for explaining the Church of the SubGenius for us.

Give me a break. I apologized for my initial post,

And then went on to explain how dumb ol' Rachel fucked up all over by
not doing the correct thing about claiming religious immunity for her
actions, in a way that implies, I'm not sure what you're trying to
imply, but either that she's terribly stupid or that she is somehow
intentionally trying to screw her own case up. I mean when you ask
"has she ever explained what she told the judge", asking her to
explain herself seems to me to imply that you are accusing her of one
or the other.

This despite my having already pointed out that at this point, it
should be clear to the court, and Nickie pointing out how irrelevant
it is to the case at hand.

Why it is so important to you to level accusations at her I really
don't know. Are you really not aware you're doing it?

Post by nospam
and Rev. Nickie
returned the gesture by coming down on my head with a huge pile
of guilt bricks. You do the math.

That's because you're being an ASSHOLE.
--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
Well if I woke up with my hair soaked with
blood and bits of moist stuff that would really put a damper on the
day.

:: Currently listening to Soledad, 2000, by Al Di Meola, from "The Grande Passion"

[Monsignor Tartarus Sanctus]

Post by nospam

Post by RevNickie
Do you think the Conspiracy will let us have the
freedoms of performing our rituals with impunity?

You're damned right it would, unless y'all are breaking laws.

You really have no idea what the justice system is like in the real
world.

Had you told the judge what you thought, you would be in jail.

Had Magdalen tried to explain something once the judge told her to
shut up, she'd be in contempt and possibly gone to jail, and
*certainly* put her case in serious jeopardy.

When small potatoes legal authority is questioned, the first thing
that happens is you go to jail. Vindication comes afterward, at a
steep monetary cost.

Tartarus