Discussion:
finally got "complete truth about de-evolution"
(too old to reply)
Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
2004-01-08 10:08:35 UTC
Permalink
it should be obvious by now that i'm not as hardcore as some of you
guys. i certainly wouldn't buy a laserdisc player for only one disc, as
a bunch of you have. so this is the first time i've ever seen "complete
truth."

i have to say, i thought it was pretty good! i didn't like the very
early stuff, like with the spuds in condom-shaped rubber bags writhing
about, because that just screams "oooh look how weird we are! can you
take it, you tightass middle americans with your small minds and simple
preconceptions? we think you can't!" that's just so pretentious it's
embarrassing. but everything from "satisfaction" onward sits pretty
well with me.

some of you have complained about rhino not doing any work to adapt it
for dvd. personally, i wouldn't have wanted them to. this is a
documentary of sorts, created in 1992, and i want it to smell as much
like 1992 as possible. and it does. even the crossed-out credits for
"are u experienced" seem entirely in character. note that on the back
of the dvd box, they complain about the current executors of the hendrix
estate, so leaving the text in there but crossed out seems like a
statement of sorts.

i think the most valuable thing on the disc is the commentary track.
i'd already seen most of the videos on mtv when i was a wee lad, but i
hadn't before heard what mark and gerry had to say about them. quite a
story they've laid out there.

i hate to say this, but pondering on it now as an adult, i think the
band brought a lot of their misfortune on themselves. they sure do love
to slag people, for instance. they name the name of a guy at mtv who
wouldn't play one of their videos -- yeah, i'm sure you're going to get
far in "the biz" by pissing people off like that. enigma was a disaster
from the very first day they signed, they claim, and they call
themselves video pioneers humiliated by being forced to work on
shoestring budgets -- okay, if they were so hot, why couldn't they get a
better label to sign them? if the bad attitude they display in the
commentary track is any indication, i think i know why.

i just read "this must be the place," a history of talking heads, a band
that could be considered contemporaries of devo, especially with the
brian eno connection. for all intents and purposes, the heads never had
ANY real label trouble to speak of. they were courted extensively by
several label execs almost from their very first show at CBGBs, and for
years they could do no wrong. the band broke up largely because tina
weymouth and david byrne didn't get along, not due to any sort of
meddling or any real trouble with their label. i think the heads could
still be making records today if they wanted to, on any terms they
wanted to name, and could still have labels fighting over them. the
difference is attitude.

that's not to denigrate the amazing work devo did. they are still one
of my top ten favorite bands, and i am very, very picky. perhaps they
had to have the us-against-the-world attitude they had to accomplish
what they did. no band lasts forever, and devo at least went down
fighting, rather than become parodies of their earlier selves, as so
many other dinosaur bands do, who don't seem to know when it's time to
call it a day. the story of devo's very last video, and how it was
taken away from them and redone by an outsider, certainly says a lot
about how they were marginalized out of the business.

i'm waiting for jade's devo book to arrive, so you'll all have to suffer
through another prickly review like this one when it arrives. yay, new
devo product.
--
I felt bad for Byrne. While he was complaining about his band, I was
being consoling, but at the same time I was thinking, "His singing is
way off. His guitar playing is weird. If I ever met anyone on the
planet who isn't going to make it, it is this guy." -- Gus Van Sant
on David Byrne, 1974
£¤¥¦§
2004-01-08 15:25:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
i think the
band brought a lot of their misfortune on themselves.
The best example of that is the Bob Lewis lawsuit. Right out of the
gate, DEVO had a large legal settlement to pay before Warners sold even
one album (see http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/8539/bobL.html).

It's impossible to really know the details of a 'celebrity' situation
because the news we get is filtered and twisted so much - but, from the
outside, it seems that DEVO's greatest asset and greatest curse was
Casale. Without him, DEVO would never have risen to prominence, but
Casale's incomprehensible retardo-machiavellianism slammed DEVO upside
the head repeatedly with career-bursting doom. That last sentence would
look great on the back of a book jacket.
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
yeah, i'm sure you're going to get
far in "the biz" by pissing people off like that.
It was cool when DEVO acted like blank, disrespectful aliens on AMERICAN
BANDSTAND, but it couldn't have helped them much. I think Dick Clark
may have had some clout in the pop music business back when DEVO was "hep".
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
i'm waiting for jade's devo book to arrive, so you'll all have to suffer
through another prickly review like this one when it arrives.
Can't wait...


____________________
www.frankpanucci.com
Paul Bruneau
2004-01-08 22:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Interesting points. It's definitely quite a story.
Post by £¤¥¦§
It was cool when DEVO acted like blank, disrespectful aliens on AMERICAN
BANDSTAND, but it couldn't have helped them much. I think Dick Clark
may have had some clout in the pop music business back when DEVO was "hep".
Mark's David Letterman antics were a little ridiculous, too.
Post by £¤¥¦§
no band lasts forever, and devo at least went down
fighting, rather than become parodies of their earlier selves, as so
many other dinosaur bands do, who don't seem to know when it's time to
call it a day.
I'm not so sure about that. The Swiffer and AutoCAD projects sure look
like parodies of their earlier selves. I'd say the same about the
Target ads, but at least they were fun.

Sure, I hope the spuds are getting rich from the ad work, but at the
same time, some of the magic is draining away from their body of work
IMO.
Azrunr66
2004-01-09 02:39:24 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: finally got "complete truth about de-evolution"
Date: 1/8/2004 3:14 PM US Mountain Standard Time
Interesting points. It's definitely quite a story.
Post by £¤¥¦§
It was cool when DEVO acted like blank, disrespectful aliens on AMERICAN
BANDSTAND, but it couldn't have helped them much. I think Dick Clark
may have had some clout in the pop music business back when DEVO was "hep".
Mark's David Letterman antics were a little ridiculous, too.
Post by £¤¥¦§
no band lasts forever, and devo at least went down
fighting, rather than become parodies of their earlier selves, as so
many other dinosaur bands do, who don't seem to know when it's time to
call it a day.
I'm not so sure about that. The Swiffer and AutoCAD projects sure look
like parodies of their earlier selves. I'd say the same about the
Target ads, but at least they were fun.
Sure, I hope the spuds are getting rich from the ad work, but at the
same time, some of the magic is draining away from their body of work
IMO.
I'm happy to see the spuds make a few bucks from their songs. Its about time. I
remember reading somewhere that after the world tour of 1981,sold out on or
near sold out shows,after expenses,each spud recieved a check for $15,000. I
think that selling their songs to these companies proves that deevolution is
very real. I mean,cleaning a ceiling fan to "whip it"????
Stiiv
2004-01-09 13:14:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by £¤¥¦§
incomprehensible retardo-machiavellianism
Now THERE'S a band name. Won't fit on a marquee, though.


Stiiv

http://www.stiiv.com
jt
2004-01-22 06:13:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stiiv
Post by £¤¥¦§
incomprehensible retardo-machiavellianism
Now THERE'S a band name. Won't fit on a marquee, though.
They'll just be called "IRM"

Try to put Orchestral Manoeuvers in the Dark on a marquee.

OMD.

viola.

Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
2004-01-10 08:27:23 UTC
Permalink
holy crap! i figured i'd go away for a few days, come back to
alt.fan.devo, and find myself a whole bunch of beautiful mutants foaming
i think the band brought a lot of their misfortune on themselves.
but no, you all mostly agree with me. dang, we must be getting OLD.
where is our countercultural spirit? fight the power, and whatnot. in
fact, here's frank "two dots" panucci, offering even more evidence in
The best example of that is the Bob Lewis lawsuit. Right out of the
gate, DEVO had a large legal settlement to pay before Warners sold
even one album (see
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/8539/bobL.html).
yeah, i forgot about that one, although i read that page for the first
time years ago.
no band lasts forever, and devo at least went down fighting, rather
than become parodies of their earlier selves, as so many other
dinosaur bands do, who don't seem to know when it's time to call
it a day.
I'm not so sure about that. The Swiffer and AutoCAD projects sure
look like parodies of their earlier selves. I'd say the same about
the Target ads, but at least they were fun.
Sure, I hope the spuds are getting rich from the ad work, but at
the same time, some of the magic is draining away from their body
of work IMO.
eh. that doesn't really bother me much, for some reason. they may be
using their product in unseemly ways, but that's just to make money.
devo, as a band, is dead. that's enough to absolve them, in my mind.
at least they're not acting like the bloody rolling stones, trying to
pretend "they've still got it" thirty years past their prime.

i've been thinking about this a lot lately. i have to say, i think the
talking heads are edging out devo in my mind these days. david byrne is
just as dissatisfied with the state of the world as the casale and
mothersbaugh brothers, but byrne chooses ways of dealing with it that
are several orders of magnitude more mature, i think.
Electro Robo Boogie Bot
2004-01-10 16:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
i've been thinking about this a lot lately. i have to say, i think the
talking heads are edging out devo in my mind these days. david byrne is
just as dissatisfied with the state of the world as the casale and
mothersbaugh brothers, but byrne chooses ways of dealing with it that
are several orders of magnitude more mature, i think.
The Talking Heads. I used to have some of their albums years ago. Maybe I'll
pick up a couple here and there for old times sake. "I'm painting. I'm painting
again. I'm cleaning. Cleaning my brain"








"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far."

Joe Walsh - Life's Been Good
Rev. Richard Skull
2004-01-11 18:03:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Electro Robo Boogie Bot
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
i've been thinking about this a lot lately. i have to say, i think the
talking heads are edging out devo in my mind these days. david byrne is
just as dissatisfied with the state of the world as the casale and
mothersbaugh brothers, but byrne chooses ways of dealing with it that
are several orders of magnitude more mature, i think.
The Talking Heads. I used to have some of their albums years ago. Maybe I'll
pick up a couple here and there for old times sake. "I'm painting. I'm painting
again. I'm cleaning. Cleaning my brain"
I have been playing "Listening Wind" a lot. Kind of prophetic with what is
going on in Iraq right now.

Also The Police's "Bomb's Away" Who would have though a song chastising the
Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan would be just as applicaple to teh US! (beside
me of course)


MSHOTZ: The Post Post Modern Man

"War hath no Fury like a non-combatants"

Charles E. Montague
KENNY JENKINS
2004-01-12 05:18:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rev. Richard Skull
Post by Electro Robo Boogie Bot
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
i've been thinking about this a lot lately. i have to say, i think the
talking heads are edging out devo in my mind these days. david byrne is
just as dissatisfied with the state of the world as the casale and
mothersbaugh brothers, but byrne chooses ways of dealing with it that
are several orders of magnitude more mature, i think.
The Talking Heads. I used to have some of their albums years ago. Maybe I'll
pick up a couple here and there for old times sake. "I'm painting. I'm painting
again. I'm cleaning. Cleaning my brain"
I have been playing "Listening Wind" a lot. Kind of prophetic with what is
going on in Iraq right now.
Also The Police's "Bomb's Away" Who would have though a song chastising the
Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan would be just as applicaple to teh US! (beside
me of course)
MSHOTZ: The Post Post Modern Man
"War hath no Fury like a non-combatants"
Charles E. Montague
Be sure to get Fear of Music then, its the one for me, all coked up and
paranoid, before the polyrhythms forever changed them. [not that that¹s a
bad thing, but the smaller unit attempts are endearing]. Plus its got those
Eno "treatments"
Kenny in brooklyn
DevilPaul
2004-01-15 00:33:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rev. Richard Skull
Also The Police's "Bomb's Away" Who would have though a song chastising the
Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan would be just as applicaple to teh US! (beside
me of course)
You should watch Rambo III again for a good laugh. I caught this on TV a
couple of months ago and at the end of the movie Rambo gives one of the
Soviets a heart-warming lecture about how the Soviets could never break the
spirit of the Afghans, how their war was unjust, blah, blah, blah. I looked
at my brother and said "Uh, isn't that what we're doing right now?"

Paul
Stiiv
2004-01-15 13:22:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by DevilPaul
the Soviets could never break the
spirit of the Afghans, how their war was unjust, blah, blah, blah. I looked
at my brother and said "Uh, isn't that what we're doing right now?"
Uh, the answer is no.


Stiiv

http://www.stiiv.com
DevilPaul
2004-01-16 22:19:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stiiv
Post by DevilPaul
the Soviets could never break the
spirit of the Afghans, how their war was unjust, blah, blah, blah. I looked
at my brother and said "Uh, isn't that what we're doing right now?"
Uh, the answer is no.
Stiiv
http://www.stiiv.com
Better go check the news from the last year or so again then...

Paul
Stiiv
2004-01-17 16:23:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by DevilPaul
Post by Stiiv
Post by DevilPaul
the Soviets could never break the
spirit of the Afghans, how their war was unjust, blah, blah, blah. I
looked
Post by Stiiv
Post by DevilPaul
at my brother and said "Uh, isn't that what we're doing right now?"
Uh, the answer is no.
Stiiv
Better go check the news from the last year or so again then...
Why do some people fail to draw the very real distinction between the
totalitarian, communist Soviets & the US in this regard? Oh, yeah,
that's right, we're in Afghanistan for the oil...or poppies...or
something. Can't be good, of course, because we're Americans, right?
Everything we do is for oil, or whatever the Afghans have that we
want. Unless it's a libidinous, corrupt weasel like, say, Clinton
running the show...whoops. Sorry. Back to the devo NG, already in
progress.


Stiiv

http://www.stiiv.com
DevilPaul
2004-01-17 17:10:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stiiv
Why do some people fail to draw the very real distinction between the
totalitarian, communist Soviets & the US in this regard? Oh, yeah,
that's right, we're in Afghanistan for the oil...or poppies...or
something. Can't be good, of course, because we're Americans, right?
Everything we do is for oil, or whatever the Afghans have that we
want. Unless it's a libidinous, corrupt weasel like, say, Clinton
running the show...whoops. Sorry. Back to the devo NG, already in
progress.
It doesn't matter who's running the show, Republican or Democrat. It's never
good.
--
Paul
Stiiv
2004-01-17 17:38:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by DevilPaul
It doesn't matter who's running the show, Republican or Democrat. It's never
good.
Maybe, but it's a better show than you'll see anywhere else on this
planet. Unless DEVO brings back Alan & does a proper tour.


Stiiv

http://www.stiiv.com
DevilPaul
2004-01-17 22:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stiiv
Post by DevilPaul
It doesn't matter who's running the show, Republican or Democrat. It's never
good.
Maybe, but it's a better show than you'll see anywhere else on this
planet. Unless DEVO brings back Alan & does a proper tour.
Yeah right! If that happens they better hit all of the major Metro areas. I
don't wanna drive all the way to NYC to see 'em play. (But if they come I
probably would.)

Paul
Gary Childs
2004-01-11 02:41:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
holy crap! i figured i'd go away for a few days, come back to
alt.fan.devo, and find myself a whole bunch of beautiful mutants foaming
i think the band brought a lot of their misfortune on themselves.
I think the main reason for Devo's ultimate commercial failure is "limited
appeal". Due to Devo's content and attitude, their core audience is small.
Only a select cult following really gets it. They started out as an art
school project. They were marketed as a punk band, then became a new wave
band, and then tried their hand at dance music. Let's face it, "Whip It" was
a fluke. If the "Freedom Of Choice" album had bombed, it would have been
all over for them back in 1980. They got pretty far for what they were
saying, but let's face it, they were mutants in a Van Halen mentality world.
After all, a few are shepherds, and the rest are sheep. It's the reason that
the biggest pigs run society - they are right for the job.
Rev. Richard Skull
2004-01-11 18:06:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Childs
They got pretty far for what they were
saying, but let's face it, they were mutants in a Van Halen mentality world.
Where else but in hte USA could a skinny guy in Spandex Tights with lob hair be
considered "Macho"

Davis Lee Roth's Career has sunk so low he even playing the likes of Dover, DE!


MSHOTZ: The Post Post Modern Man

"War hath no Fury like a non-combatants"

Charles E. Montague
Ronald Cole
2004-01-11 02:54:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
holy crap! i figured i'd go away for a few days, come back to
alt.fan.devo, and find myself a whole bunch of beautiful mutants foaming
i think the band brought a lot of their misfortune on themselves.
but no, you all mostly agree with me. dang, we must be getting OLD.
where is our countercultural spirit? fight the power, and whatnot. in
fact, here's frank "two dots" panucci, offering even more evidence in
Well, for being countercultural and pissing off the suits, they
exceeded brilliantly! I've always thought that their "misfortune"
*was* their art... corkscrews in the brain and all that.

Gary Numan's mom and dad pretty much run Gary's NUMA label. I'm sure
Devo could run their own label, too, if it was really important to
them. But it's obvious to me that it's still all about the art.
--
Forte International, P.O. Box 1412, Ridgecrest, CA 93556-1412
Ronald Cole <***@forte-intl.com> Phone: (760) 499-9142
President, CEO Fax: (760) 499-9152
My GPG fingerprint: C3AF 4BE9 BEA6 F1C2 B084 4A88 8851 E6C8 69E3 B00B
Rev. Richard Skull
2004-01-11 18:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ronald Cole
Well, for being countercultural and pissing off the suits, they
exceeded brilliantly! I've always thought that their "misfortune"
*was* their art... corkscrews in the brain and all that.
They failed becuase they refused to play "the Game"

It was bad back then, its worse now. Now that a few Media Companies control
most of the Radio Outlets, and most of the former "indie" lables are now just
whores for the big labels. all music is homogenized to a smooth, spreadable
easy digestible pile of Crap!

I no longer listen to conventional Radio, except to get the occasional Traffic
report.

I now only Listen to Internet radio. My fav Staion is 3WK based in St. Louis.
They have introduced me to a new range of REAL independant music. Rainer Maria,
The Faint, The Propeller Heads, to name a few.

I have bought more CD's from the labels played on 3WK in the last year then I
have form the "Big Media" labels in thelast five!
Post by Ronald Cole
Gary Numan's mom and dad pretty much run Gary's NUMA label. I'm sure
Devo could run their own label, too, if it was really important to
them. But it's obvious to me that it's still all about the art.
I think it is great that Gen. Boy took such a keen intrest in what his kids
were doing. He strikes me as one who, even as a successful Middle Aged
Businessman in the '70's, appreciated origanal ideas and thinking.

And he makes some great homemade candy too!

I love Gary Numan. He was one of those pioneers of eletronic music that was too
far out for "Big Media". His one hit, "Cars" was great, but on the LP was
overshadowed by many of the greater song that never made it becuase you could
not dance to it.


MSHOTZ: The Post Post Modern Man

"War hath no Fury like a non-combatants"

Charles E. Montague
Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
2004-01-13 03:03:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rev. Richard Skull
They failed becuase they refused to play "the Game"
It was bad back then, its worse now. Now that a few Media Companies
control most of the Radio Outlets, and most of the former "indie"
lables are now just whores for the big labels. all music is
homogenized to a smooth, spreadable easy digestible pile of Crap!
does not compute. that scenario does not account for bands at least as
oddball as devo that manage to last much longer. i'm not saying "the
system" is all that great, just that it can be worked around, if you
really want to.

for example, shonen knife. pretty weird group, especially by american
standards. their songs are about kitty cats and jellybeans and haunted
houses and bicycles. they write about things they like. the only
exception i can think of right off the top of my head is "ah,
singapore," which appears to be a subtle jab at the fascist policies of
that country. but even then you really have to be paying attention to
see their intent, on first listen it sounds like the usual breezy shonen
knife pop song. and those girls have been doing their thing for
decades. they are about twenty years older than they look.

the devo universe, on the other hand, requires bogeymen. like "through
being cool," the message of which is "we're cool, most people aren't,
and we're pissed off enough to bust heads over it." rod rooter.
"beautiful world" (not). us-versus-them almost everywhere you look.
not just in the songs, but in their real-world actions.

do you suppose the shonen knife girls never once encountered a
recalcitrant label exec in their entire decades-long career? the
likelihood of that seems vanishingly small. but they decided to put it
out of their minds and not propogate that bit of evil any farther than
it had to go, and wrote another song about kitty cats. devo, on the
other hand, faced with that same scenario, gave us rod rooter, an easy
one-dimensional target designed to make the viewer feel smug and
superior. in fact, devo seemed to go far out of their way to take every
slight they ever received and work it into a song or video.

so personally, i'm afraid i have to conclude that devo's ultimate
downfall was due to a bad case of chronic foot-shooting. i suppose you
could call that "failure to play the game," but i wouldn't. i'd call it
"failure to work within the system."

not that i'd change what they did, even if i could. it's kind of fun to
watch other people do that sort of thing, without having to personally
experience the resultant wear and tear.
Matt Griffin
2004-01-13 18:14:15 UTC
Permalink
Gary Childs
2004-01-14 05:15:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
for example, shonen knife.
Comparing them to Devo is like comparing apples and oranges. It's a
different time, a different market, a different label, etc. Did Shonen Knife
ever have a hit song or a gold record in the US? It's true that Devo could
still be touring and releasing CDs on a shoestring budget, but there's very
little profit in it. They cancelled their Smooth Noodle Maps tour because of
lack of interest. Their Recombo DNA CD has yet to sell 5000 copies. Devo is
strictly a cult band. Mark makes more doing commercial work.
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
pretty weird group, especially by american standards.
True, and that's why few in America have heard of them. I don't know a song
by them personally.
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
"ah, singapore," which appears to be a subtle jab at the fascist policies
of
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
that country. but even then you really have to be paying attention to
see their intent, on first listen it sounds like the usual breezy shonen
knife pop song.
Are you saying songs with a political message can't be hits? Tell that to
Toby (Flag Waver) Keith.
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
and those girls have been doing their thing for
decades. they are about twenty years older than they look.
Devo did it for decades too. Still do for the right price. Most groups don't
continue on unless there's a decent market. Do you think the Rolling Stones
would continue if there wasn't millions to be made?
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
the devo universe, on the other hand, requires bogeymen.
It's true that there is a level of paranoia to Devo, but it's not a
requirement, just a side effect.
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
like "through
being cool," the message of which is "we're cool, most people aren't,
and we're pissed off enough to bust heads over it."
Nope, that's not the message. "Cool" dosen't mean "hip" in the song; it
means "calm". We're tired of being calm while evil spuds are walking on us.
It's about the underdog turning the tables. The idea of the song is not:
let's bust the heads of people who aren't hip. The idea is to fight back
against those who make life tough on you because of their stupidity.
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
us-versus-them almost everywhere you look.
Yeah, in some places, but not everywhere.
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
not just in the songs, but in their real-world actions.
What real-world actions?
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
do you suppose the shonen knife girls never once encountered a
recalcitrant label exec in their entire decades-long career? the
likelihood of that seems vanishingly small. but they decided to put it
out of their minds and not propogate that bit of evil any farther than
it had to go, and wrote another song about kitty cats.
So if Devo had put bad thoughts out of their minds and wrote a trite song
they would have survived commercially?
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
devo, on the
other hand, faced with that same scenario, gave us rod rooter, an easy
one-dimensional target designed to make the viewer feel smug and
superior.
And so people decided not to buy their records because they created Rod
Rooter? He was created long before their commercial hit song "Whip It" ,
which, by the way, contains no "bogeymen", and has a positive message. Most
people who bought, or didn't buy a Devo record never even saw Rod Rooter.
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
in fact, devo seemed to go far out of their way to take every
slight they ever received and work it into a song or video.
Most artists do that. Including many popular and sucessful acts. Look at
Eminem for christ's sake! Does his bad attitude equal poor sales?
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
so personally, i'm afraid i have to conclude that devo's ultimate
downfall was due to a bad case of chronic foot-shooting.
Your conclusion is wrong. How did they shoot themselves in the foot? The big
mistake they made was leaving Warners, but they would have been dropped at
some point because the albums stopped selling. Devo got tired of making no
money, so they decided to only make with the spud rock for a price. A song
here or there, a show if there's someone to foot the bill.
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
i suppose you
could call that "failure to play the game," but i wouldn't. i'd call it
"failure to work within the system."
It's really a simple case of no commercial potential. Devo dosen't sell on a
mass scale. What record company wants a group that can't move 5000 copies of
an album, or that can't put asses on seats on a tour?
Post by Jøhnny Fävòrítê (it means "genetic antagonism")
not that i'd change what they did, even if i could. it's kind of fun to
watch other people do that sort of thing, without having to personally
experience the resultant wear and tear.
Yeah, why do anything when you can sit on the sidelines and pick apart
things that you don't understand?

Yes, they had an attitude, but what kills a band is lack of sales. You can
market attitude, but it's more difficult to market something that the public
isn't buying.
G Yanez
2004-01-14 05:45:27 UTC
Permalink
an new indie record? Sure. But my wish would be for an cd of updated
versions of past faves such as the Girl U want redo which was killer. I
d love to hear an cd with that sound all though it.

But honestly id have to say that Devo has no fire left in em. They
have run dry as all bands do aside from the true greats.
Wipeouters was horrible. Im going to give the guys the benefit of the
doubt and say they did put some effort into that but it doesnt sound
like it.

As for they being their own worst enemy, i recall one of them saying
FOC and NEWTRA were efforts solely done in a fashion to "conform" to
radio standards as requested by Warners.

After some success with those 2 records they went back to their more
true style in ONO, forgoing the more "accepted" sound they had forged
and maybe leaving behind any further chances of continuing further then
their shelf life had turned out to be.



gil
Gary Childs
2004-01-14 14:59:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by G Yanez
But honestly id have to say that Devo has no fire left in em. They
have run dry as all bands do aside from the true greats.
Most groups put out their best stuff early on, and then run dry; even the
true greats. The Beatles broke up before they really started to suck. After
5 studio releases most groups have played their hands.
Post by G Yanez
As for they being their own worst enemy, i recall one of them saying
FOC and NEWTRA were efforts solely done in a fashion to "conform" to
radio standards as requested by Warners.
How many new wave groups survived the 1980's and made it to the 1990's? Not
too many really. Many of the alternative bands of the early 1990's are
already gone. The public is fickle, and every generation of teenagers wants
to listen to the new music.
Post by G Yanez
After some success with those 2 records they went back to their more
true style in ONO, forgoing the more "accepted" sound they had forged
Well, ONID dosen't really sound much like AWNMWAD or DNFTF, but it is a
bitter, caustic, sarcastic album.
Post by G Yanez
and maybe leaving behind any further chances of continuing further then
their shelf life had turned out to be.
I don't think the public ever really heard ONID for it the make a judgement
call on it's worth. It got little airplay or promotion. It flopped, much
like DNFTF flopped. Maybe Devo ran out of chances.
The Claw
2004-01-14 23:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Childs
Post by G Yanez
But honestly id have to say that Devo has no fire left in em. They
have run dry as all bands do aside from the true greats.
Most groups put out their best stuff early on, and then run dry; even the
true greats. The Beatles broke up before they really started to suck. After
5 studio releases most groups have played their hands.
I find that the pattern of a mega-successful artistic entity goes like
this...

A. Group is born, undergoes a period, usually brief, of getting oriented
and discarding unneccesary personnel (such as, sadly, Bob Lewis.)
B. First creative output burst - Best expression of group ideals, sometimes
flawed or hampered by limited resources. Fans of this work are usually fans
for life.
C. Second creative output burst - Technical and stylistic details are
spot-on, group ideals are expanded and amplified, this is where "hits" are
regarded as expectations, not surprises. Often described as being "at the
top of their form". This step repeats until resources become limited, or
there is a personnel change, or a change occurs in the popular taste. In
DEVO's case, all three of these began to take place during...
D. Final creative output burst - Usually very technically competent, but
regarded widely as unexciting, "soul-less" or hackwork. Sometimes regarded
this way by fans whose tastes have changed, though unbeknownst to
themselves.
Post by Gary Childs
Post by G Yanez
As for they being their own worst enemy, i recall one of them saying
FOC and NEWTRA were efforts solely done in a fashion to "conform" to
radio standards as requested by Warners.
How many new wave groups survived the 1980's and made it to the 1990's? Not
too many really. Many of the alternative bands of the early 1990's are
already gone. The public is fickle, and every generation of teenagers wants
to listen to the new music.
I think we have seen that the rock-and-roll lifestyle, like the other
celebrity lifestyles, has a consuming effect on those who live it; NOBODY
can survive in that world for more than a certain amount of time - say,
three to five years, to be generous - and still remain in the glittery
spotlights at the top of the popularity charts...at least, not without
suffering enormous physical and mental damage.

In that sense, I think the Spuds have been as successful as we could ever
have reasonably wished. How many groups (New Wave or not) made it from the
80's to the 00's and still play together for money regularly? How many are
even still speaking to one another?

A musical career that winds up owning a successful production company and
state-of-the-art recording studio with an impressive and lucrative client
list is not what I would call a failure, no matter how much I'd love to see
a bunch of new DEVO albums.
--
The Claw
http://www.empire-of-the-claw.com
Electro Robo Boogie Bot
2004-01-14 16:21:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by G Yanez
an new indie record? Sure. But my wish would be for an cd of updated
versions of past faves such as the Girl U want redo which was killer. I
d love to hear an cd with that sound all though it.
Yes! I said this years ago. Devo should do a remix album of a bunch of their
hits. One of my all-time favorite albums is my Kraftwerk The Mix album, and
it'd be great to have something similiar in my collection done by Devo.


"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far."

Joe Walsh - Life's Been Good
Kenny Jenkins
2004-01-15 00:52:20 UTC
Permalink
that record [Kraftwerk The Mix ] is also an indicator of the complete lack of
original ideas left by that act, which isn't a parallel I would like to apply
to devo.
kenny in brooklyn
Post by Electro Robo Boogie Bot
Post by G Yanez
an new indie record? Sure. But my wish would be for an cd of updated
versions of past faves such as the Girl U want redo which was killer. I
d love to hear an cd with that sound all though it.
Yes! I said this years ago. Devo should do a remix album of a bunch of their
hits. One of my all-time favorite albums is my Kraftwerk The Mix album, and
it'd be great to have something similiar in my collection done by Devo.
"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far."
Joe Walsh - Life's Been Good
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